Jesus Did Not Have Sex!

[Tom]

A main theme of the book is Jesus is not God. Since He is not God, he could have been married. Some other problems with the book theme are that there is evidence that Mary Mag, remained in the area, even establishing a Church, she did not flee to France. If His followers did not believe He were God, what would the danger to His wife and child be? None, the Apostles were not ALL rounded up and executed. I’m still at a loss as to how Mary is the “diety”, maybe I missed it but it’s not worth reading again.

Angainor:

Paul is speaking of taking wives with them while evangelizing. My translation (NIV) says “Don’t we have a right to take a believing wife along with us…?” Jesus’ alleged wife would naturally not be included in the list.

Sorry I lost your logic here. Jesus took a wife during His ministry, the rest of the Apostles bring wives during their “ministry” , why would you naturally exclude Mary? What better example?

Angainor:

The context here is divorce (verses 8-9). I think Jesus is saying “If you don’t think you can say married, don’t get married.” I think Jesus could stay married. I certianly don’t think Jesus is calling on nobody to get married. Again, I don’t think Jesus is advocating everyone to leave their wife and kids. Rather Jesus is saying he that leaves his wife or kids “for my sake” will receive a hundredfold. Why would you leave you wife “for Jesus’ sake”? If your wife is exceedingly sinful and unrepentant and you think you could simply not follow Jesus under her influence (for example).

Well, it’s only acamedic but I tend to disagree, He is applying this to married as well as unmarried, remember
DRBrg:

Matthew 19, 10 His disciples say unto him: If the case of a man with his wife be so, it is not expedient to marry. 11 Who said to them: All men take not this word, but they to whom it is given. 12 For there are eunuchs, who were born so from their mother’s womb: and there are eunuchs, who were made so by men: and there are eunuchs, who have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven. He that can take, let him take it.

Scripture is certainly referring here to unmarried as well
DRBrg:

1 Corinthians 7,9 But if they do not contain themselves, let them marry. For it is better to marry than to be burnt.

 

[Angainor]

Sherlock:

Marriage is meant to show us something of the Trinity—a fruitful, total self-giving. Our spouses and our marriages are meant to help us get to heaven by showing us how we can become “perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect”.

Why was Mary married?

Sherlock:

Jesus was hardly your typical first-century Jew.

Really?
“Where did this man get this wisdom and these miraculous powers?” they asked. “Isn’t this the carpenter’s son? Isn’t his mother’s name Mary, and aren’t his brothers James, Joseph, Simon, and Judas? Aren’t all his sisters with us? Were then did this man get all these things?” And they took offense at him. Matt 13:54-57
Apparently up until his 30’s Jesus was typical enough for this hometown neighbors.

Sherlock:

He was God, and the most important human that has ever walked the face of this planet. To suggest that the NT writers just forgot to mention his marriage, especially given the theological importance of marriage, is ludicrous. The important women around Jesus are named and mentioned, but not his wife? Not plausible, and not in keeping with the understanding of vocations.

As important as marriage is, I think it is just a bit weird that they forgot to explicitly tell us that Jesus was never married.

I agree though, that if Jesus was married the NT writers would probably have put that information somewhere in their rightings, but I leave 20% open for doubt. Especially if they had a reason for not advertising the identities of Jesus’ family for their own safety.

 

[Athrond]

SPOKENWORD:

The Devinci Code is nothing more than the works of Satan.Satans time is coming to an end very soon and he will continue fiercly with his lies and deception.Do not open the door to the devil.Pray that you wont be decieved. God Bless,

ooookay. What makes you say that? Because you don’t agree?

Athrond

 

[Sherlock]

Angainor:

Why was Mary married?.

The child Jesus deserved what all children deserve: an intact family with a mother and father. Nor would it have been seemly to endorse the idea that out-of-wedlock births were approved by God. Sorry, but this one seems REAL obvious.

Angainor:

Really?
“Where did this man get this wisdom and these miraculous powers?” they asked. “Isn’t this the carpenter’s son? Isn’t his mother’s name Mary, and aren’t his brothers James, Joseph, Simon, and Judas? Aren’t all his sisters with us? Were then did this man get all these things?” And they took offense at him. Matt 13:54-57.

Yes, really. These people failed to recognize Jesus’s divinity. His Apostles and other followers did recognize His authority, and so took no offense at Him.

Angainor:

Apparently up until his 30’s Jesus was typical enough for this hometown neighbors.

Yes, He was. Not sure what this has to do with Him being God, regardless of how ordinary He may have been until the start of His ministry. Are you saying that because His hometown hommies thought He was just like everyone else, He was? Are you saying that Jesus wasn’t divine, because His hometown neighbors didn’t think He was?

Angainor:

As important as marriage is, I think it is just a bit weird that they forgot to explicitly tell us that Jesus was never married…

Because the Scroptures repeatedly describe the Church as the “Bride of Christ”, maybe they assumed that most folks would get it. And you don’t seem to understand the concepts of vocation and consecration (which is understandable if you aren’t Catholic or Orthodox). Jesus repeatedly told the disciples that He had to die: it was His vocation to do the Father’s will, to be a servant and not be served.

Angainor:

I agree though, that if Jesus was married the NT writers would probably have put that information somewhere in their rightings, but I leave 20% open for doubt. Especially if they had a reason for not advertising the identities of Jesus’ family for their own safety.

Your doubt is a reflection of your misunderstanding about the nature of a person’s vocation, and of the revelatory nature of marriage. Again, I’d suggest studying the theology of the body. With those misunderstandings, I can see how you can think the way you think (I too might have answered in a similar manner in my Protestant years, though no one asked me), but I can simply not share your doubt. But, God bless.

 

[Angainor]

Sherlock:

The child Jesus deserved what all children deserve: an intact family with a mother and father. Nor would it have been seemly to endorse the idea that out-of-wedlock births were approved by God. Sorry, but this one seems REAL obvious.

Well OK then. There appears to be at least one other reason for marriage other than “showing us something about the Trinity”.

Sherlock:

Because the Scroptures repeatedly describe the Church as the “Bride of Christ”,

“Repeatedly” my be an overstatement.

Sherlock:

Jesus repeatedly told the disciples that He had to die: it was His vocation to do the Father’s will, to be a servant and not be served.

There are a few things here I would question. Does “being a servant and not be served” exclude someone from marriage? Did Jesus know he was to die young? Does the knowledge that one is to die young exclude someone from marriage? Men sometimes die young. Does that really mean they should not have had kids? Do you want all men tested at birth to determine their likely life expectancy and forbid those with short life expectancy from fatherhood?

 

[Tom]

Angainor:

if Jesus was married the NT writers would probably have put that information somewhere in their rightings, but I leave 20% open for doubt. Especially if they had a reason for not advertising the identities of Jesus’ family for their own safety.

Why their safety, according to Brown He was NOT God, their safety was not in jeopardy if He were not God. Even if thewy believed He was God, many writings should have surfaced about His offspring, or marriage, where are they?

 

[Sherlock]

Angainor:

Well OK then. There appears to be at least one other reason for marriage other than “showing us something about the Trinity”.

You are being needlessly contentious, which is a barrier to any kind of intelligent discussion. Either that or you have some problems with attention deficit disorder or an overactive imagination: I never posited that the revelatory aspect of marriage was its ONLY purpose. Next straw man?

“Repeatedly” my be an overstatement.?

Define “repeatedly”, then.

Angainor:

There are a few things here I would question.
Does “being a servant and not be served” exclude someone from marriage?

The quote has to do with the nature of Jesus’ vocation. You don’t get it, do you? If you are married, THAT is your vocation. When Jesus states that some forego marriage because of their calling to be servants of God, you think He didn’t demonstrate that Himself? If “two become one flesh” in marriage, does a wife of Jesus become God? Look—do me a favor: study the theology of the body first, and then come back to this question. Until you have a better understanding of vocation and marriage, this conversation is going nowhere.

Angainor:

Did Jesus know he was to die young?

Are you serious? I’m beginning to think that you are not sure of the divinity of Jesus—that would certainly explain much of your thought. Do you believe that Jesus was God? In answer to your question: yes, Jesus knew, and told His disciples what would happen to Him.

Angainor:

Does the knowledge that one is to die young exclude someone from marriage?

Haven’t given it much thought. It does sound unwise at best. But I’ll get back to you on it.

Angainor:

Men sometimes die young. Does that really mean they should not have had kids?

No one can know, unless he is God (which Jesus was) exactly when he will die. So obviously your question is a foolish one—marriage is meant to be fruitful, and using contaception because you might die tomorrow is a sign of mental instability (as well as going against God’s desire for marriage to be fruitful).

Angainor:

Do you want all men tested at birth to determine their likely life expectancy and forbid those with short life expectancy from fatherhood?

No. Is this your idea of an intelligent discussion? It’s not mine.

 

[MGEISING]

Sherlock:

Since Jesus (as Magicsilence has pointed out) was not married, sex would have been a sin—fornication. Since Jesus was sinless, how could He have committed a sin?

Sexual union between married persons is a kind of hint as to the kind of union—utterly self-giving; ecstatic; complete; and fruitful—we are to have with God. Since Jesus is God, I don’t see the point of what your relatives are saying. They seem to say that there’s nothing wrong with the idea of Him being selfish and pleasing Himself—I would suggest giving your realtives some information on the Theology of the Body: they seem utterly clueless as to the meaning of human sexuality.

BINGO

 

[Angainor]

Sherlock:

Angainor:

Did Jesus know he was to die young?

Are you serious? I’m beginning to think that you are not sure of the divinity of Jesus—that would certainly explain much of your thought. Do you believe that Jesus was God? In answer to your question: yes, Jesus knew, and told His disciples what would happen to Him.

Yes, I am quite serious.
Going a little farther, he fell with his face to the ground and prayed, “My Father, if possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will.” Matt 26:39
Yes I believe Jesus was a divine person. I also believe he was perfect man. Men are not omnipresent, and I think it is clear that Jesus was not omnipresent either. Jesus could walk on water, but he still needed to walk to get where he was going. Likewise, men are not omnipotant or omniscient. I don’t think Jesus was either.

As late as the garden of Gethsemane Jesus wasn’t certain he had to drink the cup of suffering. I don’t believe Jesus knew when he was going to die 15 years earlier when he would have been contemplating marriage.

Yes, at the time of the garden of Gethsemane Jesus could read the writing on the wall. He could tell what direction events were sweeping him along. He had total trust (but not certian knowledge) that the events as they were unfolding were the will of the Father, but that didn’t stop him from praying his prayer in the garden.

 

[Sherlock]

Angainor:

Yes I believe Jesus was a divine person. I also believe he was perfect man. Men are not omnipresent, and I think it is clear that Jesus was not omnipresent either. Jesus could walk on water, but he still needed to walk to get where he was going. Likewise, men are not omnipotant or omniscient. I don’t think Jesus was either…

Since God is omniscient and omnipotent, are you are saying that Jesus wasn’t God?

Angainor:

As late as the garden of Gethsemane Jesus wasn’t certain he had to drink the cup of suffering. .

Matthew 16:21: “From that time Jesus began to show his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things from the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and on the third day be raised”.
Matthew 17:22 : “As they were gathering in Galilee, Jesus said to them, ‘The Son of Man is to be delivered into the hands of men, and they will kill him, and he will be raised on the third day’. And they were greatly distressed.”
Those are just two quotes. I could find more, but I haven’t time to type them out just now. I have to say, you’re the first person I’ve come across to suggest that Jesus’s anguish at knowing what he had to endure (and his human wish that he not have to) showed that Jesus didn’t know he was going to die.

Angainor:

I don’t believe Jesus knew when he was going to die 15 years earlier when he would have been contemplating marriage…

Then you don’t believe Jesus was God. And let’s drop the whole marriage thing until after you study the theology of the body, because this conversation is utterly pointless if you don’t understand marriage and the nature of vocation.

Angainor:

Yes, at the time of the garden of Gethsemane Jesus could read the writing on the wall. He could tell what direction events were sweeping him along. He had total trust (but not certian knowledge) that the events as they were unfolding were the will of the Father, but that didn’t stop him from praying his prayer in the garden.

There have been many things that I wish I didn’t have to do, but know I have to. None of this has any relation to foreknowledge. A women may wish she didn’t have to go through labor pains, but she knows she has to. If she expresses that anguish, does that prove that she doesn’t know that childbirth will be very, very painful? You are drawing conclusions (Jesus did not have certain knowledge of what would happen to him) based on this, despite clear evidence in the Scriptures to the contrary, and denying Jesus’s divinity in the process (because to say that Jesus was not omnipotent or omniscient, which are attributes of God, is to
deny Jesus as God).