E
Even_So
Guest
Not debatable, right?
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W
wynd
Guest
Looking through the text of the normal Sunday Divine Liturgy, I see at least 16 references to Christ as God, even more if you count references to the Theotokos as “Mother of our God.”
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JerryZ
Guest
Nope HE is GOD, HE told us so, If you see me you see HIM who sent me.
We confess this in our creed every Sunday.
We confess this in our creed every Sunday.
I believe in one God,
the Father almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all things visible and invisible.
I believe in one Lord Jesus Christ,
the Only Begotten Son of God,
born of the Father before all ages.
**God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
**begotten, not made, consubstantial with the Father;
through him all things were made.
For us men and for our salvation
he came down from heaven,
and by the Holy Spirit was incarnate of the Virgin Mary,
and became man.
For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate,
he suffered death and was buried,
and rose again on the third day
in accordance with the Scriptures.
He ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again in glory
to judge the living and the dead
and his kingdom will have no end.
I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life,
who proceeds from the Father and the Son,
who with the Father and the Son is adored and glorified,
who has spoken through the prophets.
I believe in one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church.
I confess one Baptism for the forgiveness of sins
and I look forward to the resurrection of the dead
and the life of the world to come. Amen.
S
StephieNorthCo
Guest
That is fundamental to ourfaith. “In the beginning was the Word… and the Word was God.”
Blessings,
Stephie
Blessings,
Stephie
7
7_Sorrows
Guest
I voted yes. The Trinity is One. Jesus is God.
I
Ignatius
Guest
Yes, Jesus is God the Son the second Person of the Blessed Trinity.Jesus is God?
H
hazcompat
Guest
Amen. Jesus Is God!
Amen.
Peace
Amen.
Peace
L
Linusthe2nd
Guest
Should be no debate among Christians.
Linus2nd
Linus2nd
D
Draper
Guest
ONE God, THREE Persons – God the Father, God the Son (Jesus Christ) and God the Holy Spirit. The very basis of Christianity…
C
CeelosDeznos
Guest
Even the expression, “son of” in the phrase “Son of God” means not “male offspring” of God, but “one in the same.”
While sometimes the expression “son” meant a literal male offspring, such as Isaac being a son of Abraham, it often was used to mean we were speaking of an individual who belonged to a certain class or was the embodiment of the subject.
For instance, “son of the prophets” (1 Kings 20.35) meant simply “a prophet” or a member of the guild or order of prophets who served Israel. The term occurs eleven times in Scripture, and it never refers to an offspring of two male prophets (which would be impossible).
Luke 10.6 speaks of a “son of peace,” which most modern Bible translations render as a “peaceful person” or “lover of peace” or something of the sort. A “son of peace” was someone who embodied or was the personification of peace. Peace cannot reproduce and have a male offspring.
Even the term “Son of Man” which Jesus often uses merely means “person,” and when used in the first person by a speaker can mean “me, myself.” Mark 17.3 has Jesus calling James and John “sons of thunder” which simply meant they were boisterous.
And the reason Christ is known as the “only Son of God” is because He is Son of God in a way no one else can be. Angels and humans can be called “sons of God” but only Jesus is “Son of God” in the sense of being a member of the Trinity or very incarnation of God. (John 20:28) Even pagans at the time referred to incarnations of their gods as “son of” whatever god they had in mind. This is why Pilate, a Roman who very much knew that Caesars had taken a similar title to mean that they were incarnations of the very gods they worship, was taken back when he heard someone “accuse” Jesus of being “Son of God.” It meant to Pilate that he was dealing with no mere mortal.–John 19.7-9.
Is Jesus God? Even without John 1:1 to add to this mix, how could one take this sliver of an argument and say there is not good reason to think so?
While sometimes the expression “son” meant a literal male offspring, such as Isaac being a son of Abraham, it often was used to mean we were speaking of an individual who belonged to a certain class or was the embodiment of the subject.
For instance, “son of the prophets” (1 Kings 20.35) meant simply “a prophet” or a member of the guild or order of prophets who served Israel. The term occurs eleven times in Scripture, and it never refers to an offspring of two male prophets (which would be impossible).
Luke 10.6 speaks of a “son of peace,” which most modern Bible translations render as a “peaceful person” or “lover of peace” or something of the sort. A “son of peace” was someone who embodied or was the personification of peace. Peace cannot reproduce and have a male offspring.
Even the term “Son of Man” which Jesus often uses merely means “person,” and when used in the first person by a speaker can mean “me, myself.” Mark 17.3 has Jesus calling James and John “sons of thunder” which simply meant they were boisterous.
And the reason Christ is known as the “only Son of God” is because He is Son of God in a way no one else can be. Angels and humans can be called “sons of God” but only Jesus is “Son of God” in the sense of being a member of the Trinity or very incarnation of God. (John 20:28) Even pagans at the time referred to incarnations of their gods as “son of” whatever god they had in mind. This is why Pilate, a Roman who very much knew that Caesars had taken a similar title to mean that they were incarnations of the very gods they worship, was taken back when he heard someone “accuse” Jesus of being “Son of God.” It meant to Pilate that he was dealing with no mere mortal.–John 19.7-9.
Is Jesus God? Even without John 1:1 to add to this mix, how could one take this sliver of an argument and say there is not good reason to think so?
B
ByzCathCantor
Guest
True, but why is this question post on the Eastern Catholicism sub-forum?Not debatable, right?
J
JRS_88
Guest
I was going to ask the same thing.True, but why is this question post on the Eastern Catholicism sub-forum?
M
malphono
Guest
Good question.True, but why is this question post on the Eastern Catholicism sub-forum?
J
johnnykins
Guest
Probably because of the arguments made by certain Eastern Orthodox posters such as the thread by Cavaradossi - an Eastern Orthodox poster dated April 14, 2012 - wherein he asserts that God the Father is God…and all the interesting stuff that follows…and this is a fishing expedition on what Eastern Catholics think given what some seem to think of as the taint of Rome.I was going to ask the same thing.
That’s my guess anyways…
B
ByzCathCantor
Guest
johnnykins, could you kindly add a link to the thread you have mentioned? I could not find it.Probably because of the arguments made by certain Eastern Orthodox posters such as the thread by Cavaradossi - an Eastern Orthodox poster dated April 14, 2012 - wherein he asserts that God the Father is God…and all the interesting stuff that follows…and this is a fishing expedition on what Eastern Catholics think given what some seem to think of as the taint of Rome.
That’s my guess anyways…
If one were to introduce a thread to explore potential theological “disparity” between Rome and the Eastern Churches, there are likely far more compelling topics, ones that might indicate some fractionalization. Questioning Trinitarian belief is probably not going to get one there …
J
johnnykins
Guest
It’s a closed thread…doesn’t really, but only sort of, questions Trinitarian beliefs…johnnykins, could you kindly add a link to the thread you have mentioned? I could not find it.
If one were to introduce a thread to explore potential theological “disparity” between Rome and the Eastern Churches, there are likely far more compelling topics, ones that might indicate some fractionalization. Questioning Trinitarian belief is probably not going to get one there …
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=665514
Under the Title: I Believe in One God
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ByzCathCantor
Guest
Got it - thanks!It’s a closed thread…doesn’t really, but only sort of, questions Trinitarian beliefs…
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=665514
Under the Title: I Believe in One God
There’s actually some good dialogue in that thread. Knowing Cavaradossi a bit from his participation here, I highly doubted he would be suggesting anything irregular. Rather, his question seemed to be based on the Trinitarian formulation in the Nicene Creed.
“I believe in One God, the Father Almighty …”
FrKimel gives a nice response in that thread.
C
Cavaradossi
Guest
Grammatically, the only words in the creed which stand in apposition to “one God” are “the Father, the pantokrator, creator of heaven and earth, and of all things invisible.” Everything else stands in a parallel construction (and in one Lord…, and in the Holy Spirit…) to believing in one God. Of the Lord, Jesus Christ, it is declared that He is True God of True God with the implication that this is by way of His relation to the Father. Of the third, The Holy Spirit, it is not even declared that the Spirit is God, only that the Spirit also has some kind of relation to the Father (implying, of course, that the Spirit is also God of God).Probably because of the arguments made by certain Eastern Orthodox posters such as the thread by Cavaradossi - an Eastern Orthodox poster dated April 14, 2012 - wherein he asserts that God the Father is God…and all the interesting stuff that follows…and this is a fishing expedition on what Eastern Catholics think given what some seem to think of as the taint of Rome.
That’s my guess anyways…
The conservatism of the language of the Niceno-Constantinopolitan Creed is rather striking to me. I was, and still am, rather curious if the West after Nicaea always had an approach to the Trinity which focused more on the unity of essence rather than the monarchy of the Father, the latter being a sort of remnant of Ante-nicene theology which pervades much of Eastern trinitarian thought.
Honestly, I remember most of the “interesting” stuff coming from others in that thread.
E
Even_So
Guest
True, but why is this question post on the Eastern Catholicism sub-forum?
I was going to ask the same thing.
Where i am going is i hope you can teach me a little suntin here. JESUS is GOD. We are all in agreement. I had asked if GOD and Allah are the same, as some call GOD Allah. That was split right down the middle. So is the Eastern view of JESUS the same name as Isa to some? If so, wouldn’t that make Isa equivalent to Allah?Good question.
I
Ignatius
Guest
No, read the accounts of Isa. Isa is not Jesus. Fr. Mitch Pachwa gave a description of the differences to a caller on either an EWTN Open Line or Catholic Answers Live radio call in. The podcasts and possibly YouTube are available on line if you want to do a search for them.Where i am going is i hope you can teach me a little suntin here. JESUS is GOD. We are all in agreement. I had asked if GOD and Allah are the same, as some call GOD Allah. That was split right down the middle. So is the Eastern view of JESUS the same name as Isa to some? If so, wouldn’t that make Isa equivalent to Allah?
Not sure if this is the one, but it has some relevant information:
youtube.com/watch?v=Uo5HWS0H2Gs
Here is another one on a different subject that you may find very interesting:
youtube.com/watch?v=qibg-m2vUno
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