Jesus just a prophet?

[spotty]

someone said that mohammed taught that Jesus wasnt crucified. is this true? isnt the crucifixition historically accurate apart from the bible? i didnt think the jews argued against the crucifixtion either just the resurrection

 

[Semper_Fi_1]

spotty:

someone said that mohammed taught that Jesus wasnt crucified. is this true? isnt the crucifixition historically accurate apart from the bible? i didnt think the jews argued against the crucifixtion either just the resurrection

yes, muhammed taught that jesus was replaced and assumed into heaven before he was supposed to be crucified (and that when the end of the earth comes, he’ll return and announce that muhammed was god’s last prophet, and that christians and jews were wrong). there’s speculation as to who replaced him, but most muslims believe it was probably judas.

 

[catsrus]

originally posted by** Faith101**
…I googled Flavius Josephus to read some of his writings. Is this a good site to get that from?

That is a good site! I’d not seen it before. I spent lots of time in a library a few years ago to get to these writings.
The internet sure can be a marvelous thing.

 

[Faith101]

smelton:

QUOTE=Faith101]Mr Lewis’ basic foundation is wrong…because he believes that Jesus clearly said that he was God, which Jesus didnt.

Muslims believe that Jesus, like Moses and Abraham and Mohamed, called people to the worship of the one God.

The fact that the Children of Israel tried to harm him doesnt make him special, as they have tried to harm (and killed) many prophets before him, who all said the same thing: know that your Lord is one.

Just some scriptures to back up CS Lewis’s statement. They will take some study on your part if you are truely interested in the what Jesus did claim. If you are just arguing then I suspect you won’t study them but here they are anyway.
John 3:13-21
John 4:13-14
John 5:23-27
John 6:40
John 6:53
John 6:62
John 7:37
John 8:14-18
Matt 26:64
Matt 28:18

These verses are not conclusive, for example

Matthew 28:18 And Jesus coming, spoke to them, saying: All power is **given to me ** in heaven and in earth.

Who is it that **gave ** him the power?

Jesus saith to him: Thou hast said it. Nevertheless I say to you, hereafter you shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of the power of God, and coming in the clouds of heaven

There is God, and then there is Jesus sitting on the right hand. How is Jesus and God the same being when they are clearly being separate here?

And this is the will of my Father that sent me: that every one who seeth the Son, and believeth in him, may have life everlasting, and I will raise him up in the last day.

Again there is “the father” who has sent Jesus. Two completley different beings. I do agree that if you dont believe in Jesus as the one who God has sent, then unless you have a big fat excuse you wont get into paradise.

We can go back and forth all day, and it wont matter. The truth is that not one verse in the Bible has Jesus telling anybody “I am indeed your Creator, worship me” Not one.

These are just a sampling of what is in the Bible. They all indicate Christ claim on diety. You have to study what they mean not make them mean what fits your comfort of your belief.

What you really mean is that i have to make them mean what fits YOUR comfort and YOUR belief. The truth is the verses are not conclusive. For instance, if you ask me to bring verses from the Quran that talks about God’s unique oneness, I wouldnt have a problem. And it will be so clear, that no one can argue with it.

 

[Faith101]

Ching_PBUH:

Neither did Jesus say, " Cut it out will yah!!! I told you many,many times not to worship me and equate me with God! Read my lips, I AM NOT, I REPEAT, I AM NOT GOD! "

The Quran offers us a glimpse of what Christians believed at the time of Mohammad, and I guess these could have been in their Scripture at that time:

When Mohammad taught, “No! They didn’t crucify Him” he (Mohammad) must have heard Christians saying, “Jesus was crucified! He’s risen”

When Mohammad taught “No! He was just an ordinary Prophet, not the Son of God”, he (Mohammad) could have heard Christians calling Him God.

When Mohammad taught, “God is ONE and NOT 3 Persons” he (Mohammad could have heard from Christians about God’s attribute!

Now who’s more reliable, the Christians with their Books or Mohammad who came 570 years later to refute what’s in the Christian Books?

Mohamed, like all messengers, came to clear up whatever has polluted the original message.

You have one Lord, worship Him.

That is all, that is what Jesus Abraham moses mohamed and every single messenger and prophet said.

Jesus prostrated to someone else, but you prostrate to Jesus.

 

[Kristina_P]

Faith101:

We can go back and forth all day, and it wont matter. The truth is that not one verse in the Bible has Jesus telling anybody “I am indeed your Creator, worship me” Not one.

I’m curious as to how you see Peter’s statement, “You are the Christ, the Son of the Living God,” and Jesus’ response about building His church on the rock of Peter.

Also, please address the earlier poster’s comments about why Jesus’ closest disciples would have insisted upon preaching Jesus as the resurrected Lord. If anyone was going to get it right, wouldn’t it be his friends and not a man who came 500 years later? I don’t mean to belittle Muhammed; this just doesn’t make sense to me.

 

[Semper_Fi_1]

Faith101:

There is God, and then there is Jesus sitting on the right hand. How is Jesus and God the same being when they are clearly being separate here?

There are three persons (Father, Son and Holy Spirit) in the Trinity, three persons, being one God, because in God there is Eternity. There is only one Eternity, therefore one God in Trinity.

John 20:

26: And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you.
27: Then saith he to Thomas, reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.
28: And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
29: Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.
30: And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book:
31: But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

Matt 22:

36: Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
37: Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38: This is the first and great commandment.
39: And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40: On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
41: While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them,
42: Saying, What think ye of Christ? whose son is he? They say unto him, The Son of David.
43: He saith unto them, How then doth David in spirit call him Lord, saying,
44: The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool?
45: If David then call him Lord, how is he his son?
46: And no man was able to answer him a word, neither durst any man from that day forth ask him any more questions.

 

[Booklover]

Faith101:

These verses are not conclusive, for example

Matthew 28:18 And Jesus coming, spoke to them, saying: All power is **given to me **in heaven and in earth.

Who is it that **gave **him the power?

Jesus saith to him: Thou hast said it. Nevertheless I say to you, hereafter you shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of the power of God, and coming in the clouds of heaven

There is God, and then there is Jesus sitting on the right hand. How is Jesus and God the same being when they are clearly being separate here?

And this is the will of my Father that sent me: that every one who seeth the Son, and believeth in him, may have life everlasting, and I will raise him up in the last day.

Again there is “the father” who has sent Jesus. Two completley different beings. I do agree that if you dont believe in Jesus as the one who God has sent, then unless you have a big fat excuse you wont get into paradise.

We can go back and forth all day, and it wont matter. The truth is that not one verse in the Bible has Jesus telling anybody “I am indeed your Creator, worship me” Not one.

What you really mean is that i have to make them mean what fits YOUR comfort and YOUR belief. The truth is the verses are not conclusive. For instance, if you ask me to bring verses from the Quran that talks about God’s unique oneness, I wouldnt have a problem. And it will be so clear, that no one can argue with it.

Faith, you’re dissecting the Trinity again and that won’t get you anywhere. We already know you don’t accept it, so why keep repeating it?

Do you mean that in order to believe in God, we have to understand everything about him? That God has to be an open book to us? You’ve got to be kidding!

Vickie

 

[Jerusha]

I have a lot of respect for non-Christians who respect Jesus for what He said and did. I think it is the first step towards Christianity-- and given what xians (I make a clear distinction) have done in the past, I don’t blame non-Christians for taking in the whole Message.

As for Josephus-- some claim that the passages referring to Jesus were insertions made after the fact intended to substantiate Christian claims.

 

[smelton]

Faith101:

These verses are not conclusive, for example

Matthew 28:18 And Jesus coming, spoke to them, saying: All power is **given to me ** in heaven and in earth.

Who is it that **gave ** him the power?

Jesus saith to him: Thou hast said it. Nevertheless I say to you, hereafter you shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of the power of God, and coming in the clouds of heaven

There is God, and then there is Jesus sitting on the right hand. How is Jesus and God the same being when they are clearly being separate here?

And this is the will of my Father that sent me: that every one who seeth the Son, and believeth in him, may have life everlasting, and I will raise him up in the last day.

Again there is “the father” who has sent Jesus. Two completley different beings. I do agree that if you dont believe in Jesus as the one who God has sent, then unless you have a big fat excuse you wont get into paradise.

We can go back and forth all day, and it wont matter. The truth is that not one verse in the Bible has Jesus telling anybody “I am indeed your Creator, worship me” Not one.

What you really mean is that i have to make them mean what fits YOUR comfort and YOUR belief. The truth is the verses are not conclusive. For instance, if you ask me to bring verses from the Quran that talks about God’s unique oneness, I wouldnt have a problem. And it will be so clear, that no one can argue with it.

No that is not what I mean. You need to study the Greek. It is very clear. Please do not make assumptions and distort what the scriptures say. I truely studied the scriptures to find Christ’s claims of diety. I’m not trying to convert anyone on this board. What I’m saying is true. Christ claimed to be God. If you don’t believe Him, that is a reasonable response. If you think he was a little off his rocker, that is a reasonable response. If you think he was simply a prophet, very unreasonable based upon his words. Truth is truth whether you or I believe it. His claims to diety is very clear to anyone who comes to the bible without any preconcieved notions about Christ. I’m not asking you to believe but instead to use sensible logic when approaching the Bible.

 

[spotty]

yeah i think if we go by the bible its pretty solid that its proclaiming that Jesus is God. anyone can find even more to back that up on this sites library if they want to find some specifics. this is assuming that we can trust what the bible says. b/c faith 101 seemed to say even if we could it still doesnt show that the bible seems to directly think he is God. i however strongly beg to differ. or maybe it was that Jesus never directly says He is God in the bible. still i strongly beg to differ. both are there. does anyone really wants to argue that?
what i dont understand is why one would believe anything of the bible if they got to pick and choose what they think is real and what they think was inserted (like the da vinci code also claim that things were latered inserted). do you also contend that the apostles are a myth of the bible? b/c that is very important.