Jesus' Mother and Brothers

  • Thread starter Thread starter JB_Brother_4446
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
I really don’t see why a woman who saw an angel who told her that she would bear the Son of God instantly doing something like that. The way I see it, Jesus brothers probably dragged her along with them.
I am a Mother, I could see myself not wanting my child being crucified. I am sure Jesus’ words reminded Her of Her fiat and in spite of the fear and pain She was at the foot of the cross with him while His cousins and all of his disciples except for John had deserted Him.

If these relatives had been Mary’s sons I find it impossible to believe that Christ would have given John the responsibility of caring for His Mother. It is hard for me to believe that Christ would have put His Mother in such terrible danger if She had daughters and sons who could take Her in and protect Her.
 
Well considering His relatives went to restrain him because they thought He was mad…🤷 They might have dragged Mary along with them.
There is nothing in the text either in Mark’s account or any of the other accounts why his mother and relatives were there. There is no indication at all that they thought he was mad or wanted to restrain him. It merely says that they wanted to speak to him. Anything beyond that is pure speculation.
 
another thought…

If this is a rejection or a rebuke towards his mother and relatives, then what was he rejecting them for? As in the previous post, it merely says they wanted to speak to him. If that is all it takes to be rejected by Jesus then we are all in trouble.
 
There is nothing in the text either in Mark’s account or any of the other accounts why his mother and relatives were there. There is no indication at all that they thought he was mad or wanted to restrain him. It merely says that they wanted to speak to him. Anything beyond that is pure speculation.
Earlier it says His relatves went to restrain him for they said, “He is out of his mind.”
 
I am a Mother, I could see myself not wanting my child being crucified. I am sure Jesus’ words reminded Her of Her fiat and in spite of the fear and pain She was at the foot of the cross with him while His cousins and all of his disciples except for John had deserted Him.

If these relatives had been Mary’s sons I find it impossible to believe that Christ would have given John the responsibility of caring for His Mother. It is hard for me to believe that Christ would have put His Mother in such terrible danger if She had daughters and sons who could take Her in and protect Her.
They could have been older stepbrothers. John may have been related to Jesus. But that is not what I wanted to discuss.
 
They could have been older stepbrothers. John may have been related to Jesus. But that is not what I wanted to discuss.
When I was a Protestant the interpretation given to me was Jesus rejected His Mother and she and her other sons were totally out of line. I accepted that and it bothered me. I identify with Mary and Her love for Her Son. For Jesus to not understand the fear and pain she felt for Him seemed impossible - but there it was.

I have had this explained to me by Catholic teachers and in sermons that what Jesus was saying was in so many words: Mary’s position in the Church is not so much that she bore Jesus, but that she did what God asked of Her.

He could have been reminding His Mother of Her Fiat.

But I do understand your problem. I know as a mother of two sons, the relationship between sons and mothers is complicated at best. Mary had to come to terms with the knowledge that Her Son was going to be tortured and killed. I can’t believe that this was a easy thing for her to mildly sit back and accept.
 
Earlier it says His relatves went to restrain him for they said, “He is out of his mind.”
My Douay-Rheims and KJV both translate Mark 3:21 as “when his friends…” rather than family as other translations do, but I’m not going to dispute that here.

I think somewhat of a simple explanation is that it says the multitude was even preventing them from eating. Jesus was pouring himself out in his ministry. Whether friends or family, they are saying in a sense, “your crazy for working this hard.” Not that they did not believe what he was saying or teaching. They just wanted him to take a break and eat.
 
My Douay-Rheims and KJV both translate Mark 3:21 as “when his friends…” rather than family as other translations do, but I’m not going to dispute that here.

I think somewhat of a simple explanation is that it says the multitude was even preventing them from eating. Jesus was pouring himself out in his ministry. Whether friends or family, they are saying in a sense, “your crazy for working this hard.” Not that they did not believe what he was saying or teaching. They just wanted him to take a break and eat.
John 7:5 also says quite candidly, “For even His brothers did not believe in him.”
 
There is nothing in the text either in Mark’s account or any of the other accounts why his mother and relatives were there. There is no indication at all that they thought he was mad or wanted to restrain him. It merely says that they wanted to speak to him. Anything beyond that is pure speculation.
"And He came home, and the crowd gathered again, to such an extent that they could not even eat a meal. 21When His own people heard of this, they went out to take custody of Him; for they were saying, “He has lost His senses.” 22The scribes who came down from Jerusalem were saying, “He is possessed by Beelzebul,” and “He casts out the demons by the ruler of the demons.”… Mark 3;21

I guess if you have a crazy relative you are supposed to take custody of them.
 
"And He came home, and the crowd gathered again, to such an extent that they could not even eat a meal. 21When His own people heard of this, they went out to take custody of Him; for they were saying, “He has lost His senses.” 22The scribes who came down from Jerusalem were saying, “He is possessed by Beelzebul,” and “He casts out the demons by the ruler of the demons.”… Mark 3;21

I guess if you have a crazy relative you are supposed to take custody of them.
I also think they might have dropped Mary off as well.
 
I did a little research on the Greek for Mark 3:21 and the word translated as “friends, family, relatives, his own people”, etc. literally means “beside” which I would take to mean those close to him, but not necessarily any relation whatsoever (although they could be) which explains the various translations. Whoever these people are they did seek to restrain him in some manner. But I don’t see an indication that these people are actually his “mother and his brethren” who show up later in verse 31.

Another possible explanation, since this was his hometown of Nazareth, is that these are people he grew up with, but they were not followers or disciples, simply neighbors who knew him from an early age. So in that sense, they were “beside or close to” him. We also know from Mathew 13:58, and Mark 6:5-6 that he could not do many mighty works there because of their unbelief. Nazareth is also the place for his first public ministry where his neighbors tried to kill him (Luke 4:16-30).

I think the earlier responses in this thread are correct in that it isn’t a rebuke to Mary or his “brethren”, but rather it is elevating those who obey God to be the family of Jesus/God. Although due to his unfavorable reception in Nazareth, it could be a veiled rebuke to the other people who live there. Most likely it seems to be both, in my opinion.
Originally Posted by JB Brother 4446
John 7:5 also says quite candidly, “For even His brothers did not believe in him.”
There is a very broad meaning in the scriptures for the term “brother”. It can mean of the same parents, but it can also mean a close blood relation such as cousin, uncle, etc. Another common usage is belonging to the same people, ancestry, or fellow countrymen (a clear example of this usage is Romans 9:3), and other usages.

From John 7:1, Jesus is traveling about within Galilee. Nazareth is a town within Galilee. We have already seen the reception Jesus received in Nazareth, “his own country”, and many did not believe there. Any person from Nazareth or Galilee in general could be called Jesus’ brethren because they are fellow countrymen. Any Jew could be called a brother because they are of the same people or ancestry. While these unbelieving brethren could be the same wanting to restrain him in Mark 3, it could just as easily be any of a number of groups of people.

From the text itself, it is impossible to state that the people that wanted to restrain Jesus in Mark 3:21 are related to Jesus in any way, or that they are the same brethren that came to speak to him with Mary in 3:31. It is also impossible to tie either of these two groups together with those unbelieving brethren mentioned in John 7:5. Also due to the broad meaning and usage of the term brethren, it is impossible to say definitively their relationship to Jesus either by close blood, or common ancestry, or simply neighbors in a common town.

So while some may claim that his “relatives” didn’t believe him, or that this is a rebuke to Mary, there simply isn’t any indication of that without speculating beyond what is stated in the text, or by assuming that “brother” must mean by blood despite the wide range of usage that it has within scripture. If this is also supposed to be a rejection of Mary in Mark 3, then it must also be a rejection of Mary in the parallels of Mathew 12:46 and Luke 8:19. While Mark has additional information that could speculatively explain “why” Mary would be rejected, the only reason for this rejection in the parallel accounts would be that she simply wanted to speak to him. That’s pretty harsh and contradictory to his own teaching “…he that curses his father or mother, let him die the death” (Matt 15:4). So I restate what I said previously, if wanting to speak to Jesus is all it takes to be rejected by him, then we are all in trouble.
 
Jesus is using Mary as an example of perfection.

But he said to them, “My mother and my brothers are those who hear the word of God and do it.” (Luke 8:21)

No one heard the will of God clearer or did it more faithfully than Mary.

-Tim-
 
I did a little research on the Greek for Mark 3:21 and the word translated as “friends, family, relatives, his own people”, etc. literally means “beside” which I would take to mean those close to him, but not necessarily any relation whatsoever (although they could be) which explains the various translations. Whoever these people are they did seek to restrain him in some manner. But I don’t see an indication that these people are actually his “mother and his brethren” who show up later in verse 31.

Another possible explanation, since this was his hometown of Nazareth, is that these are people he grew up with, but they were not followers or disciples, simply neighbors who knew him from an early age. So in that sense, they were “beside or close to” him. We also know from Mathew 13:58, and Mark 6:5-6 that he could not do many mighty works there because of their unbelief. Nazareth is also the place for his first public ministry where his neighbors tried to kill him (Luke 4:16-30).

I think the earlier responses in this thread are correct in that it isn’t a rebuke to Mary or his “brethren”, but rather it is elevating those who obey God to be the family of Jesus/God. Although due to his unfavorable reception in Nazareth, it could be a veiled rebuke to the other people who live there. Most likely it seems to be both, in my opinion.

There is a very broad meaning in the scriptures for the term “brother”. It can mean of the same parents, but it can also mean a close blood relation such as cousin, uncle, etc. Another common usage is belonging to the same people, ancestry, or fellow countrymen (a clear example of this usage is Romans 9:3), and other usages.

From John 7:1, Jesus is traveling about within Galilee. Nazareth is a town within Galilee. We have already seen the reception Jesus received in Nazareth, “his own country”, and many did not believe there. Any person from Nazareth or Galilee in general could be called Jesus’ brethren because they are fellow countrymen. Any Jew could be called a brother because they are of the same people or ancestry. While these unbelieving brethren could be the same wanting to restrain him in Mark 3, it could just as easily be any of a number of groups of people.

From the text itself, it is impossible to state that the people that wanted to restrain Jesus in Mark 3:21 are related to Jesus in any way, or that they are the same brethren that came to speak to him with Mary in 3:31. It is also impossible to tie either of these two groups together with those unbelieving brethren mentioned in John 7:5. Also due to the broad meaning and usage of the term brethren, it is impossible to say definitively their relationship to Jesus either by close blood, or common ancestry, or simply neighbors in a common town.

So while some may claim that his “relatives” didn’t believe him, or that this is a rebuke to Mary, there simply isn’t any indication of that without speculating beyond what is stated in the text, or by assuming that “brother” must mean by blood despite the wide range of usage that it has within scripture. If this is also supposed to be a rejection of Mary in Mark 3, then it must also be a rejection of Mary in the parallels of Mathew 12:46 and Luke 8:19. While Mark has additional information that could speculatively explain “why” Mary would be rejected, the only reason for this rejection in the parallel accounts would be that she simply wanted to speak to him. That’s pretty harsh and contradictory to his own teaching “…he that curses his father or mother, let him die the death” (Matt 15:4). So I restate what I said previously, if wanting to speak to Jesus is all it takes to be rejected by him, then we are all in trouble.
It could not be the fact that His (step)brothers wanted to speak to him but it was the reason they might have wanted to speak to him. The brothers mentioned in this passage are clearly related to Jesus in some way as it is attested by the Fathers. (I don’t believe they are younger half-brothers of Jesus because a contextual reading of the text goes against that interpretation.) Although Jesus said these words about His family, the text is silent on the issue of whether He saw them or not.
 
It could not be the fact that His (step)brothers wanted to speak to him but it was the reason they might have wanted to speak to him.
Agreed. The problem though is that in both Mathew and Luke there is no reason given or even implied, which leads to either there is no rebuke in his statement, or they are rebuked for wanting to speak to him. We both reject the second idea which means Jesus’ words are not a rebuke or rejection towards them. To conclude that it is a rebuke or rejection from Mark, forces that conclusion on Mathew and Luke which neither supports. Since neither of them support that conclusion, then it must be a wrong conclusion for all three accounts.
Originally Posted by JB Brother 4446 The brothers mentioned in this passage are clearly related to Jesus in some way as it is attested by the Fathers. (I don’t believe they are younger half-brothers of Jesus because a contextual reading of the text goes against that interpretation.) Although Jesus said these words about His family, the text is silent on the issue of whether He saw them or not.
I don’t dispute that the people that came with Mary are related to Jesus. But I would argue they are not the same as those in verse 21, admittedly they could be, but they could just as easily not be. The text is really inconclusive. I would say from the fact that none of the Gospel accounts say either way whether he saw them or not means it was insignificant to the point they were trying to get across.

You may like this commentary on Mark 3 from St. Thomas Aquinas “Catena Aurea” catecheticsonline.com/CatenaAurea-Mark3.php
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top