Jesus mythicism and atheism

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Why do people on the internet keep saying Jesus never existed?
 
But people say anything and everything on the internet. I don’t think we need to figure out or defend against every crazy idea.
“Don’t believe everything you see on the internet.”
— Abraham Lincoln
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I used to read quite a bit about the Jesus myth theory. To my understanding, not all of those holding the theory say such a man never existed but that what we know of him is myth or derived from myth. There certainly are some echoes, so to speak, from mythologies the world over of gods who die. They were once called dying and rising gods but that term has fallen out of favor with scholars. There are some hardcore ones who will say that no such man ever existed. But that’s not all of them.
 
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The overwhelming consensus in NT scholastics, whether Christian, Muslim, Jewish or atheist, is that a man named Jesus definitely existed and was executed by Pontus Pilate.

Historically, they can’t say He was God or rose from the dead as that is outside the bounds of history, but He did exist.

Theologically, much more can be said…and has. The Jesus myth scholars are very few in number but appeal to some atheists for various reasons…but, even amongst atheists, they are small in numbers. The best they can do is point out some holes in the Jesus story, holes that apologists fill. How well the apologists do in filling the holes is up to each individual to decide.

The Jesus myth theory is fringe at best and propounded upon by equally fringe scholars. Richard Carrier is their lone scholar for a written defense of the theory and he’s an unemployed scholar at that.
 
Pattylt said:
The Jesus myth theory is fringe at best and propounded upon by equally fringe scholars.
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I will say one thing. Given the plethora of gods dying across world mythologies I can see a case being made that the story of Jesus was just one variation on it.
 
If you want to read the “best” case made for the myth theory then Richard Carriers “Did Jesus exist and why we have room for doubt.”

Critiques on his opus were pretty scathing and didn’t seem to impress anyone…but, it’s an interesting read.
 
StudentMI said:
I will say one thing. Given the plethora of gods dying across world mythologies I can see a case being made that the story of Jesus was just one variation on it.
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Tolkien explained to Lewis that the story of Christ was the true myth at the very heart of history and at the very root of reality.

Myths, Lewis told Tolkien, were “lies and therefore worthless, even though breathed through silver.”

“No,” Tolkien replied. “They are not lies.” Far from being lies they were the best way sometimes the only way of conveying truths that would otherwise remain inexpressible. We have come from God, Tolkien argued, and inevitably the myths woven by us, though they contain error, reflect a splintered fragment of the true light, the eternal truth that is with God. Myths may be misguided, but they steer however shakily toward the true harbor, whereas materialistic “progress” leads only to the abyss and the power of evil.

“In expounding this belief in the inherent truth of mythology,” wrote Tolkien’s biographer, Humphrey Carpenter, “Tolkien had laid bare the center of his philosophy as a writer, the creed that is at the heart of The Silmarillion .” It is also the creed at the heart of all his other work. His short novel, Tree and Leaf , is essentially an allegory on the concept of true myth, and his poem, “Mythopoeia,” is an exposition in verse of the same concept.

Building on this philosophy of myth, Tolkien explained to Lewis that the story of Christ was the true myth at the very heart of history and at the very root of reality. Whereas the pagan myths were manifestations of God expressing Himself through the minds of poets, using the images of their “mythopoeia” to reveal fragments of His eternal truth, the true myth of Christ was a manifestation of God expressing Himself through Himself, with Himself, and in Himself. God, in the Incarnation, had revealed Himself as the ultimate poet who was creating reality, the true poem or true myth, in His own image. Thus, in a divinely inspired paradox, myth was revealed as the ultimate realism.

Such a revelation changed Lewis’ whole conception of Christianity, precipitating his conversion.

J.R.R. Tolkien: Truth and Myth.
 
I’m familiar with that. Nonetheless, I feel what I wrote holds up.
 
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Pattylt said:
If you want to read the “best” case made for the myth theory then Richard Carriers “Did Jesus exist and why we have room for doubt.”

Critiques on his opus were pretty scathing and didn’t seem to impress anyone…but, it’s an interesting read.
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I knew I’d heard that name before! I have a copy of his book Not the Impossible Faith.
 
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I dunno, I find the mythopoeia concept pretty helpful. 🙂 That while God walked through the drama of salvation with His chosen people in a very direct way, even ultimately incarnating in the person of the Son, He didn’t neglect other humans and gave their poets and seers ‘dreams’ that allowed them to grasp towards Him, however through a mirror darkly.

CS Lewis wrote an awesome book on this sort of premise, actually: pre-Christian mythology and peoples – though in a world where the Christian God is true. Called ‘Til We Have Faces’. I think it was the book Tolkien like best out of everything Lewis wrote. It’s definitely different (and darker, in my view) than Lewis’s usual. Subtler.
 
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I will check it out. I’d also like to read Joseph and His Brothers by Thomas Mann. It looks interesting.
 
True story: A man told St. Padre Pio that he didn’t believe in the existence of hell. St. Padre Pio looked at him and said: “You will when you get there.” The man was so shaken that he repented and went to confession.

Moral: People who believe that Jesus is a myth will find out on Judgement Day that He exists.
 
Jacob1 said:
Why do people on the internet keep saying Jesus never existed?
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Because they’re not well informed/ not very bright.

Even educated atheists pretty much all agree Jesus existed, though of course they don’t think he was the Son of God. There’s reliable historical existence that he existed.

There are a handful of fringe scholars who still claim he never existed, as PattyIt pointed out, but they are very few in number.
 
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Atheist here. I think most non-believers who have read up on it think that Jesus was a historical real person. I’d accept the basic outline that he taught, caused a disturbance in Jerusalem, and was executed. Most other facts are less certain.
 
Thank you for saying this. I wanted to say something similar but hesitated.

Unfortunately I’m not sure if Pio did such things. Even Pope Benedict, when talking about confession in one of his book length interviews, brought up Pio and said something along the lines of “sometimes a good thrashing is necessary.” I found it odd to compare a sacrament of mercy to physical violence but that’s just me.
 
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FiveLinden said:
I’d accept the basic outline that he taught, caused a disturbance in Jerusalem, and was executed.
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Fair. It seems like a number of atheists (can’t say how many, because the Internet isn’t a good judge of that) are inconsistent with embracing certain aspects of history and ignoring others. Glad that there are folks out there who are consistent with what they believe.
 
A number of people I know have said that, and fair enough. Sometimes though, I think hearing things as they are is better than being coddled. Being Catholic or helping others to be isn’t always pleasant, after all.
 
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