Jesus Never Said

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Lost_Sheep

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How does one respond to a statement such as “Jesus never said abortion (or “gay marriage”, or birth control, etc.) was wrong.” as if to imply that since Jesus never explicitly declared a particular act to be sinful, then it must be OK. I have a friend of the liberal persuasion who claims to be “religious” but uses this so-called justification all the time.

I need a good comeback to squelch this argument once and for all.
 
Jesus taught very clearly on marriage

Matthew 19:1-6 (my emphasis)
And it came to pass, that when Jesus had finished these sayings, he departed from Galilee, and came into the coasts of Judaea beyond Jordan;
And great multitudes followed him; and he healed them there.
The Pharisees also came unto him, tempting him, and saying unto him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife for every cause?
And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,
And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?
Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.
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Jesus did not come to hand us a list of sins; he came to take away ours.
 
And for all that, Jesus spent three years telling people what is sinful and what isn’t.
 
Some things Jesus never “explicitly said” are covered in the Epistles, particularly St. Paul’s. Jesus also told us to keep the Commandments, which will cover those things you mentioned as well, even if not “explicitly”… Abortion is Murder, for example.
 
Lost_Sheep said:
How does one respond to a statement such as “Jesus never said abortion (or “gay marriage”, or birth control, etc.) was wrong.” as if to imply that since Jesus never explicitly declared a particular act to be sinful, then it must be OK. I have a friend of the liberal persuasion who claims to be “religious” but uses this so-called justification all the time.

I need a good comeback to squelch this argument once and for all.
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Jesus never said… that He would leave us a complete and itemized list of all things that humans can do that are wrong.

So why does your friend live a life assuming that Jesus did do that?

Seems like your friend is being inconsistent (maybe even hypocritical??🤷) to me.
 
I think it’s a very juvenile argument. Kind of like when I was a kid and my parents told us kids to clean our rooms, but my brother would stuff his dirty laundry and trash in the closet. “But you never said you wanted me to throw my garbage in the trash, and put the clothes from the floor to the laundry” I know it’s not quite the same, but the argument does strike me as being juvenile.
 
On gay marriage
Romans 1
24
Therefore, God handed them over to impurity through the lusts of their hearts for the mutual degradation of their bodies.
25
They exchanged the truth of God for a lie and revered and worshiped the creature rather than the creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.
26
Therefore, God handed them over to degrading passions. Their females exchanged natural relations for unnatural,
27
and the males likewise gave up natural relations with females and burned with** lust for one another**. Males did shameful things with males and thus received in their own persons the due penalty for their perversity.
28
And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God handed them over to their undiscerning mind to do what is improper.
29
They are filled with every form of wickedness, evil, greed, and malice; full of envy, murder, rivalry, treachery, and spite. They are gossips
30
and scandalmongers and they hate God. They are insolent, haughty, boastful, ingenious in their wickedness, and rebellious toward their parents.
31
They are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless.
32
Although they know the just decree of God that all who practice such things deserve death,** they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them.**
 
For it to be true that something is a sin, it is not necessary that Jesus of Nazareth included it in his Big Written List o’ Sins.
 
Jesus never said, “Don’t stab someone in the heart with a pencil”, but He did say, “Thou shall not kill.”

Dan Barker, the atheist apologist, makes the same mistake. He said that the ten commandments don’t mention rape, for example… Surely he, like many others, is not looking very hard for the truth.
 
Lost_Sheep said:
How does one respond to a statement such as “Jesus never said abortion (or “gay marriage”, or birth control, etc.) was wrong.” as if to imply that since Jesus never explicitly declared a particular act to be sinful, then it must be OK. I have a friend of the liberal persuasion who claims to be “religious” but uses this so-called justification all the time.

I need a good comeback to squelch this argument once and for all.
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Bible Christians love to use 2 Timothy 3:15–17, but most don’t realize that when this was written, the NT did not yet exist. When Jesus and the Apostles referred to “Scripture” they were referring to the Septuagint.

16All scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 17that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.

Things that had already been made clear in the OT did not need to be defined again, only clarified where they were misunderstood.
Code: 
 8     Speak out for those who cannot speak, 
for the rights of all the destitute.
9      Speak out, judge righteously, 
defend the rights of the poor and needy. Proverbs 31:8–9
There is no one more vulnerable than the child in the womb, who has no voice, no legal status, no position, no posessions.

We know this principle was understood by the Apostles, as it appears as early as 100 AD in the Didache.
  1. And this is the second commandment of the teaching. 2Thou shalt do no murder, thou shalt not commit adultery, thou shalt not corrupt boys, thou shalt not commit fornication, thou shalt not steal, thou shalt not deal in magic, thou shalt do no sorcery, thou shalt not murder a child by abortion nor kill them when born, (Didache).
Jesus said that salvation is of the Jews (John 4:22). Christianity is built upon the foundation of what God had already revealed to the Jews. The Jews believed that abortion was a grave evil. Even “spilling one’s seed” was considered an evil. Our whole concept on the nature of marriage and procreation comes from the Jews.
 
Lost_Sheep said:
Yes, but they counter with “Abortion doesn’t count as killing.” or other such nonsense.
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There is a whole body of literature available in apologetics for this type of nonsense. Scripture is clear in many passages that a child in the mother’s womb is a person, including John the Baptist, who leapt with joy.

"Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, And before you were born I consecrated you…Jeremiah 1:5

13For You formed my inward parts; You wove me in my mother’s womb. Psalm 139:13

Science itself defines human life as beginning at conception and ending at death. If a person will not receive what Scripture and science have to say, is it a good investment of your time?
 
Lost_Sheep said:
Yes, but they counter with “Abortion doesn’t count as killing.” or other such nonsense.
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Lk 1:43-44

And how does this happen to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?
For at the moment the sound of your greeting reached my ears, the infant in my womb leaped for joy.

Jesus was still in the earliest stages of development in His mother’s womb when fully acknowledged by John (also in his mother’s womb) who welcomed his Lord with a leap of joy.

Now,

There are many reasons why women commit abortion. Some are young and confused; some, ignorant; some, economic; some, convenient; some, shame; some, because they are taught so; some, because they are forced to do it. Whatever the reason may be, we as Christians must always be loving and compassionate in order to reach out to them. That way, we would succeed in making them understand that our God is loving, compassionate, and MERCIFUL. Giving up the child for adoption rather than abortion is always a better option. At least, give the developing life (who clings to her) the CHANCE TO BE BORN and fulfill his/her mission set out by the Lord.
 
guanophore said:
There is a whole body of literature available in apologetics for this type of nonsense. Scripture is clear in many passages that a child in the mother’s womb is a person, including John the Baptist, who leapt with joy.

"Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, And before you were born I consecrated you…Jeremiah 1:5

13For You formed my inward parts; You wove me in my mother’s womb. Psalm 139:13

Science itself defines human life as beginning at conception and ending at death. If a person will not receive what Scripture and science have to say, is it a good investment of your time?
Click to expand...
This is true, of course, but I think the biggest mistake of the pro-life movement is arguing against abortion using religion. There is a mountain of scientific and rational arguments that poke holes in abortion, to the point where it’s utterly nonsensical for anyone who opposes murder to be in favor of abortion. If I was an atheist I would be just as opposed to abortion as I am now. Bringing religion into it just makes it seem like the pro life side is “forcing religion down our throats” to the general public. Not only is this not necessary in order to oppose abortion, it’s ineffective. Due to separation of church and state, the law won’t be changed just because it says XYZ in the Bible.

(Not directing this at you specifically, just making a general comment)
 
There’s also the convenient line that if something is explicitly mentioned in the bible, all you’ll get from some is… “Well, the bible was written a long time ago and doesn’t apply to today.” So damned if it is, damned if it isn’t.
 
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