Jesus not being able to see the sins of the righteous

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deb1

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I realize that Catholics don’t believe this but I was hoping that some Protestant belivers could clarify this belief for me. I attended a Baptist church most of my life, and I never remember being taught this.

While visiting my SIL, she invited us to attend her church’s fall festival. There was a man who did ballon twisting and magic tricks for the kids. He insisted that he be called an illusionist and not a magician. After his show he explained to the kids about the way to get saved. After telling them that good works don’t get them to heaven, he then proceeded to explain that once you are saved, you put on the cloak of righteousness and Jesus can’t see your sins. This alarmed my hubby, so on the drive home he explained to the girls that Jesus does indeed see your sins.

I mentioned this incident on a different thread but I was hopoing that some Protestants who believe this could further clarify the belief. Where in the bible does it say that God can’t see sin once you are saved? I don’t ever remember being taught this, so how common is this viewpoint?
 
I realize you posted to non-Catholics, but I’m wondering if there was just an overly-simplistic explanation of “being Saved” to the little ones? Maybe the baloon-man didn’t really mean that teaching or over-simplified so as to help the kids grasp the idea?

I have spoken with Protestant friends of mine, and I remember one conversation in the past in which we were discussing Confessions…her (or his…I forget) contention was that if we go to Confession, we can sin and go again and have learned nothing. I was able to explain the True Contrition for the sin being necessary for the grace of Confession, and I also told her that I didn’t understand how they believed they could not sin anymore if they were “Saved” when clearly the “Saved” still committed murder, etc.

That friend was able to explain to me that they believed that once they were “Saved” that they could do nothing to destroy their salvation, no matter what the sin…but it did not mean they could not sin. The friend did not in any way say that Jesus no longer saw their sin…only that because they were “Saved” it was automatically forgiven if they were truly sorry for the sin.

I hope I didn’t completely misrepresent someone’s beliefs. (I’m Catholic).

Could this have been the case with the person you described? Was he really teaching my awkward description, or was he really saying that Jesus no longer “saw” or held them responsible for thier own sin?
 
Hello deb1,

This sounds like Luther’s snow covered manuer pile theology. Luther saw a manuer pile covered with snow and related it to his theology. He described Lutherans as being cloaked in Christ’s righteousness yet still in possession of their sins. We Catholics believe that through the sacrament of reconciliation we are forgiven of our sins and our sins are removed. We Catholics do not believe you can go to heaven while still in possession of sin, even cloaked sin. We believe that Jesus forgives us of our sins.

I will take a look on the Luther! Read Read! thread to see where I was reading about Luther’s snow covered manuer pile theology.
 
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JCPhoenix:
I realize you posted to non-Catholics, but I’m wondering if there was just an overly-simplistic explanation of “being Saved” to the little ones? Maybe the baloon-man didn’t really mean that teaching or over-simplified so as to help the kids grasp the idea?

I have spoken with Protestant friends of mine, and I remember one conversation in the past in which we were discussing Confessions…her (or his…I forget) contention was that if we go to Confession, we can sin and go again and have learned nothing. I was able to explain the True Contrition for the sin being necessary for the grace of Confession, and I also told her that I didn’t understand how they believed they could not sin anymore if they were “Saved” when clearly the “Saved” still committed murder, etc.

That friend was able to explain to me that they believed that once they were “Saved” that they could do nothing to destroy their salvation, no matter what the sin…but it did not mean they could not sin. The friend did not in any way say that Jesus no longer saw their sin…only that because they were “Saved” it was automatically forgiven if they were truly sorry for the sin.

I hope I didn’t completely misrepresent someone’s beliefs. (I’m Catholic).

Could this have been the case with the person you described? Was he really teaching my awkward description, or was he really saying that Jesus no longer “saw” or held them responsible for thier own sin?
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I was brought up in a Baptist church and I was taught much as your friend explained. That was why the illusionists words shocked me so badly. I don’t think that he was trying to make a complex position simple. I talked to my SIL afterwards and although she hemmed and hawed a bit, she informed me that she thought he was basically correct.

I don’t think that most protestants teach this but there are apparently a few that do. Perhaps the balloon man was a new Christian himself and didn’t fully understand his own beliefs.:confused:
 
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deb1:
I realize that Catholics don’t believe this but I was hoping that some Protestant belivers could clarify this belief for me. I attended a Baptist church most of my life, and I never remember being taught this.

While visiting my SIL, she invited us to attend her church’s fall festival. There was a man who did ballon twisting and magic tricks for the kids. He insisted that he be called an illusionist and not a magician. After his show he explained to the kids about the way to get saved. After telling them that good works don’t get them to heaven, he then proceeded to explain that once you are saved, you put on the cloak of righteousness and Jesus can’t see your sins. This alarmed my hubby, so on the drive home he explained to the girls that Jesus does indeed see your sins.

I mentioned this incident on a different thread but I was hopoing that some Protestants who believe this could further clarify the belief. Where in the bible does it say that God can’t see sin once you are saved? I don’t ever remember being taught this, so how common is this viewpoint?
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The point is that when Christ forgives you, your past sin is washed away and is no longer held against you. It doesn’t literally mean that he is unable to see your sin. Jesus is God, and nothing is hidden from his eyes. Peter made some reference to this in the gospels.
 
Chris LaRock:
The point is that when Christ forgives you, your past sin is washed away and is no longer held against you. It doesn’t literally mean that he is unable to see your sin. Jesus is God, and nothing is hidden from his eyes. Peter made some reference to this in the gospels.
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We Catholics believe that once our sin is forgiven, it is GONE. Sure, it’s still there and we may suffer temporal consequences (ie…for sexual sins…STD’s, for vanity…melanoma…etc…) We also believe that PAST sin is washed away and as I understand it, Protestants believe something similar when they are Saved.

If I am not mistaken, though, the OP is asking about the sins GOING FORWARD from the point they are Saved. And if I understand correctly, Jesus is well aware of those sins…they are not “covered”. This would actually be contrary to the teaching s of scripture…even the apostles admitted to sinning and being unworthy, although they knew Christ. They did not at any point allude to the idea that Christ did not know of their sins.
 
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JCPhoenix:
We Catholics believe that once our sin is forgiven, it is GONE. Sure, it’s still there and we may suffer temporal consequences (ie…for sexual sins…STD’s, for vanity…melanoma…etc…) We also believe that PAST sin is washed away and as I understand it, Protestants believe something similar when they are Saved.

If I am not mistaken, though, the OP is asking about the sins GOING FORWARD from the point they are Saved. And if I understand correctly, Jesus is well aware of those sins…they are not “covered”. This would actually be contrary to the teaching s of scripture…even the apostles admitted to sinning and being unworthy, although they knew Christ. They did not at any point allude to the idea that Christ did not know of their sins.
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I agree. I think that what was said about Jesus being unable to see sin is metophoric, and doesn’t literally mean he is unable to see sin. Nothing is hidden from his eyes. He is God in the flesh. But it just that he has forgiven sin and no longer holds it against you.
 
Yes, my Pentecostal friend’s father testified of this doctrine. I myself thought it was rather a personal one, but I guess it would make sense when you believe in OSAS.

When one feels the love of Jesus Christ, the cloak of Righteousness covers all the sins in which the person has done, and thus they are free from guilt.

I just don’t believe that 😛
 
my grandkids received precisely the same message at a Baptist VBS they attended (because Church is in their subdivision and all their friends were going). Took a long time of patient explanation and re-education by parents to correct what they heard. Which is why I advise Catholic parents to never take children to protestant VBS, Awana, children’s programs etc.
 
There is one reason to reject the proposition that Jesus cannot see anyone’s sins out of hand. It is only possible if God is blind, or denies what is there.

We must not confuse the fact that God sees fit not to hold forgiven sins or non-mortal sins against us in his judgements with an impairment in His ability to know all.

Blessings,

Gerry
 
Like I said, it’s a metophor. Jesus can still see the forgiven sin, but overlooks it. Why? Because he has forgiven it.
 
Chris LaRock:
Like I said, it’s a metophor. Jesus can still see the forgiven sin, but overlooks it. Why? Because he has forgiven it.
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If he was talking to adults I would be willing to give the man the benifit of the doubt. But telling children that once you are saved your sins are covered by a cloak that hides the sins from Jesus, seems irresponsible at best. How does a child understand this as metaphor if the adult doesn’t go into very deep detail explaining it to them? It is confusing to me, and I am in my late thirties.
 
Chris LaRock:
I agree. I think that what was said about Jesus being unable to see sin is metophoric, and doesn’t literally mean he is unable to see sin. Nothing is hidden from his eyes. He is God in the flesh. But it just that he has forgiven sin and no longer holds it against you.
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Not from a Lutheran viewpoint, it’s not entirely metaphoric… The whole theology around the snow-covered dung heap paradigm explicitly contradicts a Catholic understanding of both original sin and human nature.

As Catholics we believe that we are created in God’s image, and that although that image was distorted through original sin, and our humanity was damaged, it was not destroyed. We remain essentially good, albeit prone to sin. Thus we are called to cooperate in our salvation, recognizing that through Christ’s grace and forgiveness, we can draw near to Him in repentence and be sanctified. Although the grace is Christ’s alone, our salvation requires our full will and effort through cooperation.

Lutheran theology believes that the goodness of humanity was not just damaged through the Fall, it was destroyed. We are basically evil, not good, “a dungheap.” For God to accept us, we must be covered with Christ’s goodness and grace, because by ourselves we are worthless and without goodness. Thus we are to have faith alone…works cannot help us at all. Christ throws a blanket of salvation over us, and accepts us because our human awfulness is cloaked by his righteousness, not because we have any intrinsic, God-given worth.

While it is true that goodness comes from God alone, we carry that goodness stamped within our very being…it was not destroyed at the Fall, just distorted. We are given the tremendous responsibility and opportunity to “work out our salvation with fear and trembling,” as St. Paul writes, fully cooperating in Christ’s redeeming work in us.
 
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