Jesus' promise of return

[nguirado]

Jesus promised that he would return before the next generation passes. Somebody told me that this promise was fulfilled in the transfiguration. I don’t need this to make perfect sense in order to have faith, but I would like people who have thought about the issue to discuss it.

 

[puzzleannie]

Jesus promised that he would return before the next generation passes. Somebody told me that this promise was fulfilled in the transfiguration. I don’t need this to make perfect sense in order to have faith, but I would like people who have thought about the issue to discuss it.

that makes no sense. That event was a theophany experienced by Peter, James and John so that they would understand and accept Christ’s divine nature. How could it be a second coming if he was still living out the first coming and had not yet died, risen and ascended? What authority does your source cite for this.

 

[TimothyH]

Jesus promised that he would return before the next generation passes. Somebody told me that this promise was fulfilled in the transfiguration. I don’t need this to make perfect sense in order to have faith, but I would like people who have thought about the issue to discuss it.

Could you cite chapter and verse where this is promised?

I’m not trying to challenge, but to sincerely answer your question and in the process, maybe learn a little myself.

-Tim-

 

[PeaceSerenity]

Could you cite chapter and verse where this is promised?

I’m not trying to challenge, but to sincerely answer your question and in the process, maybe learn a little myself.

-Tim-

Matthew 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled. 35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

Mark 13:30 Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done. 31 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.

Luke 21:32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled. 33 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.

The Orthodox Study Bible has a note that says “This generation refers to all believers at all times, the generation of the Church, and not merely to those alive at the time of Christ.”

This makes sense if you think about the rest of Matthew 24 which up lists all the many things that must happen before the end of the world; it seems doubtful that all of those things would occur in a span of 70 years.

Also consider what follows: (Matthew 24:36) “But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, but My Father only”. The “day and hour” of the second coming is meant to be unknown to us, if Jesus had indeed meant that it would happen in the present generation, then that would be somewhat contradictory…not to mention spoiling the surprise

 

[TimothyH]

Oh, Matthew 24.

I didn’t recognize it because as I understand it, Jesus is speaking about the destruction of Jerusalem and of the temple and the killing of 1.2 million Jews by the Romans in AD 70 rather than the end of time. The apocalyptic language is typical of the prophets.

I always thought the desolating abomination (Matthew 24:15) was a Roman God which was set up in the temple. If I remember correctly, it was the image of an Eagle which the Roman soliders set up in the temple just before it was destroyed. I have also read on the Catholic Encyclopedia that some think it refers to the Roman Standards which were set up in the temple by the Roman soldiers. You can see them at bible-history.com/sketches/ancient/roman-standards.html. Notice the eagle.

http://www.bible-history.com/sketches/ancient/roman-standards.jpg.

I apologize for working from memory and that I have no references.

I remember from somewhere, I think it was a Stephen Ray talk on CD, that the veil of the temple had images of the sun, moon and starts painted on it. I know that Jewis tradition held that the rock upon which the temple was built capped of a long shaft which led to Sheol or “The Pit.” The temple was through to sit half way between Heaven and Hell and was therefor the center of the universe for the Jews. The sun, moon and starts painted on the veil which blocked the Holy of Holies would have been torn down, hence Jesus’ “The stars will fall from the sky” comment and John’s “the heavens will be rolled up” reference in the Book of Revelation. The Jews at the time would have been more familiar with this than we are.

You will hear of wars and reports of wars; see that you are not alarmed, for these things must happen, but it will not yet be the end. Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom; there will be famines and earthquakes from place to place. All these are the beginning of the labor pains. (Matthew 24:6-8)

I do note with some interest the reference to labor pains, which I take to mean the birth of the Church. That might shed some light on what honestly does seem to reference the Parousia in verse 30 and 31.

And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming upon the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he will send out his angels with a trumpet blast, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other. (Mtthew 24:30-31)
But rather than the parousia, could Jesus have been using hyperbole to mean that he will return in the form of his kingdom, the Church? (Or even the Eucharist?) The very next verse talks of the lesson of the fig tree blossoming and that “Summer is near”. Is this the blossoming of the Church? The question posed in the orginal post, namely, how can all these things happen before one generation passes, would be satisfied by this interpretation.

I’m not saying all this. I"m just sayin’. you know, for what it’s worth.

-Tim-

 

[nguirado]

This is where the guy was getting his information.

thingstocome.org/Matt.html

 

[nguirado]

Can anybody comment on the site?

 

[puzzleannie]

comment about what? who is he? with what authority does he claim to interpret sacred scripture?

 

[TimothyH]

nguraido, since the bio page on the website says that one of the guys lives in the same town as me, I’ll offer comment.

One of the guys who runs the website attends a Church named Grace Bible Church. The other guy has a Baptist background and now runs a home based Church called Christ Home Fellowship at ntrf.org/find-a-church/atlanta-kennesaw.php in the same town I live in.

They two guys who run the site you referenced seem preoccupied with defending their own interpretion of Scripture with regards to when and how the ressurection will happen, against other’s who are simmilarly preoccupied. As that stands, they are not too far off the mark, having a fairly orthodox view, stating that there will be a literal ressurection of the dead at the end of time. But for some reason, their site seems dedicated almost entirely to this particular subject.

Anyway, for what it’s worth, the site is an interesting peek into one particular aspect of the Evangelical world here in the deep south. I deal with this stuff every day. Evangelical Churches spring up like weeds and every one of them seems to have a narrow message such as freedom (Freedom Church) or God’s purpose for your life (With Purpose Church) or “Jesus… not Religion!” (His Hands Church). There is a new Church advertising the slogan “God is in a good mood!” and a predominantly black Church with billboards and signs which emphasize a message of “Empowerment.”

The deep evangelical roots are part of the reason why Catholics here in the deep south are strong in their faith and knowledgable about Scripture. With this stuff out there, we have to be.

-Tim-