Jesus' will

  • Thread starter Thread starter choy
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
C

choy

Guest
i have a discussion with a non-Christian who surprisingly is knowledgeable of bible passages, or perhaps searching Google looking for anti-Christian sites

anyway, he brought up John 5:30
"By myself I can do nothing; I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just, for I seek not to please myself but him who sent me. "

saying that Jesus has no free will. perhaps alluding that Jesus was predestined

i know the temptation of Jesus reveals that Jesus did have a choice, otherwise the devil would not have tried. but this got me thinking, does Jesus have an independent will of The Father? or does the Trinity have one divine will?
 
From the Catechism:

475 Similarly, at the sixth ecumenical council, Constantinople III in 681, the Church confessed that Christ possesses two wills and two natural operations, divine and human. They are not opposed to each other, but co-operate in such a way that the Word made flesh willed humanly in obedience to his Father all that he had decided divinely with the Father and the Holy Spirit for our salvation.110 Christ’s human will "does not resist or oppose but rather submits to his divine and almighty will."111

482 Christ, being true God and true man, has a human intellect and will, perfectly attuned and subject to his divine intellect and divine will, which he has in common with the Father and the Holy Spirit.

Source: vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P1J.HTM

God has one Will. Hence, the three Persons have in common one Will.
 
Eucharisted said:
From the Catechism:

Christ possesses two wills and two natural operations, divine and human. … Christ, being true God and true man, has a human intellect and will, perfectly attuned and subject to his divine intellect and divine will, …God has one Will. Hence, the three Persons have in common one Will.
Click to expand...
I really couldn’t put it better, when Jesus said “not my will” he actually meant his will as a HUMAN not God. As he was fully human he could not refer to his will as being God’s will because while he was on earth he was not God but God’s son. Of course he was and is still god while he was on earth but his will was not the same but in union with God. Thus as the Catachism says there were TWO wills. Of course we know that in reality when we say two we mean one in union; Three persons but one will.

One will as a human but in perfect union with the will of his father (God) in heaven so one will, human will (Jesus) and Gods will (in heaven) so there are two wills but really only one.
 
Great topic, thanks for bringing this up!
What is Jesus’ will when He was fully man (and fully God)? Is our own will not a statement of what we want or desire deep in our hearts? If Jesus therefore, when existing as a man, gives up His human will for the Fathers will He is setting an example for us- I think. I am still exploring the meaning of ‘will’, and how its state affects the rest of our life.
Peace to you.🙂
 
choy said:
i have a discussion with a non-Christian who surprisingly is knowledgeable of bible passages, or perhaps searching Google looking for anti-Christian sites

anyway, he brought up John 5:30
"By myself I can do nothing; I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just, for I seek not to please myself but him who sent me. "

saying that Jesus has no free will. perhaps alluding that Jesus was predestined

i know the temptation of Jesus reveals that Jesus did have a choice, otherwise the devil would not have tried. but this got me thinking, does Jesus have an independent will of The Father? or does the Trinity have one divine will?
Click to expand...
Jesus was true man except without sin. He was a perfect Christian if you like where his human will is placed in congruent with the Father. In other word his will is to follow the will of the Father. We all try to do that except that we falter sometimes. Jesus did not.

I would say Jesus as a man has independent will, but his will is so conform to the Father’s in heaven, it becomes the same. When he prayed, “take this cup from me” it showed his humaness. Yet the strength of this humanity is when he said, “but your will and not mine”. As God of course his will is the same as the Father and the Holy Spirit.
 
I find this discussion on Jesus’ will is very much interesting, hence I believe to understand what the real meaning of it, we cannot just simply take a quote in the Bible and make a conclusion or judgement about it.

We have to also grasp the whole message of Christianity that Jesus brings which is reflected in his entire life. If we grasp the heart of Christianity then a term or even a story (or pericope) in the Bible will be understood clearer. If we tend to pick up just a part, we will end up confuse, not only we wonder what does it mean, sometimes we even find it contradicting with other part of the Bible.

God Bless
 
=choy=i have a discussion with a non-Christian who surprisingly is knowledgeable of bible passages, or perhaps searching Google looking for anti-Christian sites
Click to expand...
anyway, he brought up John 5:30
"By myself I can do nothing; I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just, for I seek not to please myself but him who sent me. "
Click to expand...
saying that Jesus has no free will. perhaps alluding that Jesus was predestined
Click to expand...
i know the temptation of Jesus reveals that Jesus did have a choice, otherwise the devil would not have tried. but this got me thinking, does Jesus have an independent will of The Father? or does the Trinity have one divine will?
Click to expand...
Wow, heavy stuff:)

The answer is One God, Three Divine Person, Father, Son and Holy Spirit who are:

Co-Eternal and Co-Equal.

Meaning that there is but a single Will. However each of the Divine Persons is able to Will something “independent” of the others WHILE AT THE SAME TIME being of Identail Will. What One Wills, all Will everytime, bcause God’s Will is PERFECT.

One might reference the Agony in the garden, where Christ prayed, “Father if possible, let this cup pass from me, BUT NOT MY WILL BUT THY WILL BE DONE.” Must be viewed in the light of Jesus saying. “I lay down my life freely, and I have the power to raise myself up again.”

This petition is the HUMAN WILL being tested and challenged, not the Devine Will which is and has to be in accord with the Triune Will, as evidenced by what Jesus shares about freely giving His Life, knowing that on the Third day He Will Rise again.

So One Divine Will that is always in Perfect and full agreement with the Triune Will.

Love and prayers,
Pat
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top