Jesus's grave/tomb

[didymus]

for some reason my ears pricked up at this reading today:

Isa 53:8 Forcibly, after sentence, he was taken. Which of his contemporaries was concerned at his having been cut off from the land of the living, at his having been struck dead for his people’s rebellion?
Isa 53:9 He was given a grave with the wicked, and his tomb is with the rich, although he had done no violence, had spoken no deceit.

“Grave among the wicked” sounds like He was thrown into a potter’s field with other criminals and the poor.
“Tomb with the rich” is more like what really happened:

Joh 19:38 After this, Joseph of Arimathaea, who was a disciple of Jesus – though a secret one because he was afraid of the Jews – asked Pilate to let him remove the body of Jesus. Pilate gave permission, so they came and took it away.
Joh 19:39 Nicodemus came as well – the same one who had first come to Jesus at night-time – and he brought a mixture of myrrh and aloes, weighing about a hundred pounds.
Joh 19:40 They took the body of Jesus and bound it in linen cloths with the spices, following the Jewish burial custom.
Joh 19:41 At the place where he had been crucified there was a garden, and in this garden a new tomb in which no one had yet been buried.
Joh 19:42 Since it was the Jewish Day of Preparation and the tomb was nearby, they laid Jesus there.

So He did get a tomb with the rich rather than a grave with the wicked, no?
Or does that just refer to the fact that He had to die, period?

 

[NotWorthy]

for some reason my ears pricked up at this reading today:

“Grave among the wicked” sounds like He was thrown into a potter’s field with other criminals and the poor.
“Tomb with the rich” is more like what really happened:

So He did get a tomb with the rich rather than a grave with the wicked, no?
Or does that just refer to the fact that He had to die, period?

The tomb of Joseph’s hadn’t been used yet, so I don’t know if it was “tomb with the rich”. The garden could have been near a “potter’s field”, though.

My ears perked up like yours, though, during today’s liturgy, for I remember Joseph of Arimethea in Last Sunday’s Gospel providing the new and unused tomb.

 

[Static]

Hey Didymus,

I don’t have quite the translation that you have. It might be good to check and see if the word grave and the word tomb have the same meaning or not.

If grave means something like, the abode of the dead instead of a tomb, it would be that Jesus, who was without sin, was to be counted among other sinners, though He was not one.

As far as the tomb given by Joseph, I was told that the dude was like, on the rich side, so this would make more sense of the text if the two words had different meanings. This is just my guess. If you find anything out I hope that you post it so we can all learn from your findings. My resources are limited as is my time. Might not be able to check back until next weekend, so I hope this thread hangs around long enough to find it again. Enjoy your week !

May God Bless, Static ( 1 Tim 1:15 )

 

[didymus]

The KJV had:

Isa 53:9 And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.

according to Strong’s:

Hebrew qeber = speulchre, grave, burying place.

Heb. rasha = morally wrong; concretely, an (actively) bad person: condemned, ungodly, wicked (man).

Heb. ashiyr = rich, whether literally or figuratively (noble): -rich (man).

So I guess I was thrown off because I’d distinguish between a grave (underground) and Jesus’ tomb or a sepulchre above.

“With the wicked” all of sinful mankind (in contrast to Himself) who had died before him?

 

[Angelos]

The KJV had:

Isa 53:9 And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.

according to Strong’s:

Hebrew qeber = speulchre, grave, burying place.

Heb. rasha = morally wrong; concretely, an (actively) bad person: condemned, ungodly, wicked (man).

Heb. ashiyr = rich, whether literally or figuratively (noble): -rich (man).

So I guess I was thrown off because I’d distinguish between a grave (underground) and Jesus’ tomb or a sepulchre above.

“With the wicked” all of sinful mankind (in contrast to Himself) who had died before him?

This might mean that Jesus was crucified and He breathed out His last in the middle of two criminals in a place called Golgotha (Skull).

However, the way He was buried was completely different from the way the other criminals were buried. I have also read somewhere that having a personal burial place in Old Palestine was an indicator of wealth and high status in society by then.

Peace,
Angelos N.B.