Jewish Blood "Libel" True?

[Lapell]

That’s pretty much what she said. But she stated or implied that this was the belief of the majority of religious jews. It is that portion of her statement that I take issue with.

All right, Valke2! That it was only this was not clear to me… I’ll keep quiet for the rest of your deliberations.

 

[HashemEchad]

I thought Hashem Echad said she does not support the State of Israel under the present conditions, and that when it meets all the conditions as stated by the Sages of Israel, only then will she support it wholeheartedly. (Am I summing it up correctly, HashemEchad?)

Exactly. And in the meantime, I support the LAND of Israel (Eretz Yisrael), but not the STATE (which is a secular zionist manmade invention). Just as I have nothing against the land of China or its people, but I dislike its government.

 

[HashemEchad]

All right, Valke2! That it was only this was not clear to me… I’ll keep quiet for the rest of your deliberations.

I never said the majority of Orthodox Jews were antizionist (though for centuries, the majority of them WERE). But most of the leading rabbinic sages in history have been firmly against the idea of the Jewish people going up by themselves to take back the Land, before Mashiach comes.

As a Lubavitcher rabbi said to me not long ago (and remember, they are not antizionist, but are nonzionist), “We did not put ourselves into Exile, and so we cannot take ourselves out of Exile.”.

 

[bobzills]

“We did not put ourselves into Exile, and so we cannot take ourselves out of Exile.”.

I don’t see why this necessarily follows. A group could be put into exile by someone else, but then later on it could be decided to take themselves out of exile. Where is the contradiction in doing so?

 

[HashemEchad]

I don’t see why this necessarily follows. A group could be put into exile by someone else, but then later on it could be decided to take themselves out of exile. Where is the contradiction in doing so?

I’m just telling you what traditional Jews tend to believe on that, as quoted by a Lubavitcher.

The Jewish people are not supposed to go up to the Land “as a wall” (en masse) until the Mashiach comes. The rabbinic sages have said that if they ever do try it, they will know nothing but bloodshed and hostilities from the neighboring peoples.

Tell me, in light of the history of the zionist state since 1948, wouldn’t you say that has come true?

 

[Valke2]

I’m just telling you what traditional Jews tend to believe on that, as quoted by a Lubavitcher.

The Jewish people are not supposed to go up to the Land “as a wall” (en masse) until the Mashiach comes. The rabbinic sages have said that if they ever do try it, they will know nothing but bloodshed and hostilities from the neighboring peoples.

Tell me, in light of the history of the zionist state since 1948, wouldn’t you say that has come true?

No. I wouldn’t say that characterization is accurate at all. To say that Israel has known nothging but bloodshed and hostilities is a gross mischarcterization.

 

[Valke2]

The Talmud (Ketubot) says that after the destruction of the Holy Temple, the Jewish people should not go en masse to Israel and take the land by force.

Some scholars says this applies to the State of Israel today. The vast majority of rabbis say that this doesn’t apply today for a variety of technical reasons, or that the UN acceptance of the Partition Plan means that our return to the land was not “by force.”
judaism.about.com/library/3_askrabbi_o/bl_simmons_messiah2.htm

 

[Lapell]

Anyhow, what guarantee is there that there would be no bloodshed at all when all the conditions would be met?

 

[mattlibman]

Since I’m still officially new here, I don’t know if this topic has come up already, but I wanted to get some dialogue going on this topic. For anyone who doesn’t know, the “Blood Libel” was a term to describe the charge which began in Medieval Europe that Jews have been sacrificing Christian children to use their blood in rituals. These charges have long been utilized by critics of Catholicism to “prove” the inherrent anti-semtism rampant within the church.

But now, a prominint rabinical Jewish scholar Elio Toaff has concluded that these claims are actually based on fact.

Any comments?

Originally Posted on Reddit
12/21/2012 6:00 AM
Golden Dawn

My name is Matthew Libman.

Allen is my dog’s name (hence the handle) I am an only child. I was raised in Wisconsin. Today I live in Chicago, IL. I am a college graduate, a business owner, the founder of a national charitable nonprofit, and an animal lover.

My adoptive mother’s name is Dinah Libman. Her maiden name is Dianna Nashban. Her sister’s name is Leslie Dee Dee Gooze. They are from Milwaukee, WI.

My adoptive father’s name is xxxxx Libman. He is from Green Bay, WI.

I was raised in Green Bay, WI.

My mother’s first cousin is a man named David Rubin. Father of Shuvie, Shimon, and Joshua Rubin. During the early 1970s, David Rubin, while home visiting family in Milwaukee during his Israeli military service, committed an act of false flag.

David Rubin unsuccessfully attempted - in the middle of the night - to burn down a Jewish-owned grocery store during the “black” riots of the 1960s-1970s. David was shot by police, arrested, and charged with arson.

His father, Alex Rubin, was a well connected attorney and Mossad/KGB operative. Because of his “relationship” with the judge, the criminal charges were plead to nearly nothing. David Rubin immediately repatriated to Israel, moved his family into a disputed settlement in Palestinian territory, and continued the acts of terror against innocent, honest people.

My life growing up was devoid of religion and god. We had no sense of faith, other than a general “naturalistic” view of the world. There was no love. No hugging. No cuddling. No nurturing. No encouragement. Only coldness, intellectualism, punishment, and greed.

My mother had Lupus, a disease affiliated with witchcraft, and very common among witchcraft practitioners in Hati (I don’t believe in demons, but it appears Lupus lets “demons in,” I assume there is science behind this, but the hocus-pocus explanation is sufficient for purposes herein).

Our home was filled with metal statues of horned beasts. This included elk, horned giraffes, and about 10-15 small statuettes of horned animals. Until I later read of Moloch, witchcraft, and satanic practices, I thought nothing of this.

When my grandfather returned from serving the Nazi army in Europe, he used his banking connections to become a lithographer. He printed currency and bonds for member banks of the federal reserve. When gold and silver redemptions - something blamed ON German Jewish lithographers (as well as the government of France) - my grandfather died unexpectedly. My grandfather grew up in Appleton, Wisconsin. He was the same age, and was friends with, Senator Joseph McCarthy.

I have Native American blood, and was adopted.

My adoptive mother would torture me on a near-daily basis. I was screamed at roughly 2-3 hours per day. I was beaten with a wooden brush or stick 3-4 times per week.

I was never suspended from school, was well behaved, and got good grades. I was fairly popular, and have been pretty successful my entire life. I was never a bad kid, and never deserved to be punished at all, let alone tortured and abused.

I have suffered many broken bones and countless bruises. On several occasions, my mother took an entire bookshelf filled with books, solid brass bookends, statues, and el:thumbsup:ectronic equipment, and threw the entire, full bookshelf at my head. This probably happened once a month or so for a period of about 5 years during my early childhood.

She only cooked in cast iron pots and pans. Additionally, my mother would drink my blood. In fact, I believe that was the purpose of my adoption - not family.

I was sedated many times, and blood was taken from my body. My mother - with the help of a Milwaukee-based imune system doctor (who was at the same hospital I was surgically performed on for 3 months prior to my adoption from the Lutheran-owned teaching hospital MCW) who treated her Lupus.

I was filled with allergens via allergy shots (I have no allergies, but would be filled with poison). My body would reject the allergens, and produce natural antibodies. My mother would then drain my blood from my body (you should see how anemic I look in early childhood photos), store the blood in the refrigerator, and drink my blood as a medical elixir.

And guess what, IT WORKED!!! She has outlived her original life span by 40 years. She was supposed to die in her late 20s/early 30s. When I became too old to drain blood from, she began cooking in a cast iron pan.

Good for her.

Here is a video from the end of 2012 covering the topic: vimeo.com/56212775

 

[504Katrin]

The blood libel was used against the Jews to persecute and murder them. Other similar claims had the Jews poisoning Christian wells and spreading the black plague among the Christian population.

The truly remarkable thing is that certain modern Christians posted here as if it was an actual possibility which is perhaps indicative in itself. Perhaps we can go on to discuss whether there really were witches in Salem and whether they deserved to die or the part of the Jews in 9/11

For the record:

Judaisim forbids one human being to kill another.

I understand the claim was that the blood was used to make the passover matza. Please see Jewish laws of Kashrut as to blood in food.

Judaism lacks the pagan roots of other religions in which blood figures in their rituals.

You know what I’ve heard? A Catholic from the U.S. says that a Jewish couple moved from Israel to Afghanistan in order to raise their kids as Muslims over there, and that these kids were the terrorists that hijacked the planes. An adult male said this. I don’t even wanna mention the State this guy is from.