Jews Are Not Zionist. Anyone hear of this?

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DaMaMaXiMuS

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If so I’d like to know what is the official church position, if any.

I recently have come into contact with Jews who hold a peculiar belief. They claim that true Judaism and Zionism are in no way the same, and actually go as far as saying that Zionism at it’s core contradicts God and the Holy Torah. Their in complete opposition to their being a Jewish State as well as several other things.

I was given a couple of websites for these particular Jewish groups:

jewsagainstzionism.com/index.cfm

jewsnotzionists.org/index.htm

The information seems interesting, although I don’t know how accurate it is, but it seems plausible, at least in my opinion.

I’m curious to know if the Church (The Vatican), knows of such claims, if so, what do they say in regards to this.
 
DaMaMaXiMuS said:
If so I’d like to know what is the official church position, if any.

I recently have come into contact with Jews who hold a peculiar belief. They claim that true Judaism and Zionism are in no way the same, and actually go as far as saying that Zionism at it’s core contradicts God and the Holy Torah. Their in complete opposition to their being a Jewish State as well as several other things.

I was given a couple of websites for these particular Jewish groups:

jewsagainstzionism.com/index.cfm

jewsnotzionists.org/index.htm

The information seems interesting, although I don’t know how accurate it is, but it seems plausible, at least in my opinion.

I’m curious to know if the Church (The Vatican), knows of such claims, if so, what do they say in regards to this.
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I don’t think the Church would have much to say in this matter which would be more of an internal discussion among Jews. But what you’ve heard is correct; there are Jews who are not supporters of the Zionist movement that re-established the nation of Israel. I believe Most of Hasidic Judaism is anti-Zionist, the Satmar Hasidic sect being particularly so.
 
Being a Jew means being a member of a tribe, membership is determined by heredity. It may or may not include adherence to the religion.

Zionism is a political position in favor of the establishment of a Jewsih state more or less where Israel is now. Being a Jew in no way mandates adherence to Zionism. In fact some Jews - very conservative ones - reject Israel as it is constituted today because they expect the real Israel to be set up by the Messiah - who, for them, has clearly not come.
 
Isn’t Zionism very young, comparatively…like post WW2? If that’s correct there have been lots of Jews who were not also Zionist! I think many orthodox Jewish groups do not agree with it because they feel it’s wrong to bring about Zion without waiting for the Messiah. One of my friends grew up in a family who believed this, although she’s now more of a Reformed type.

Zionism is politics, in my understanding, and Judaism is religion. There are Christian Zionists, right? Christians who strongly support Israel as a state?
 
THOSE are the Jews I like! (the non-zionist ones).

I have a real respect for the ultra-orthodox hasidim and such who reject the abomination which is the “state of israel”.

Oddly enough, or perhaps not so oddly, I don’t only respect them because they reject the zionist position. They are also the Jews whose religion and philosophy and lifestyle I independently respect the most.

I think because in some ways, when a Jew commits to Zionism…the rest of their faith gets tainted, and in some ways becomes subordinate to the ethnocentric nationalism.
 
Thank you for the responses everyone. Very interesting topic.
 
DaMaMaXiMuS,

While I cannot speak for the Church, I can say that some Jews that I have known were definitely not Zionist. Zionism and Judaism are two very different things. Their relationship is much like that between the Evangelical churches and the “Religious Right” of American politics.
  • Liberian
 
Cecilia,

Zionism started at the end of the nineteenth century with Theodore Herzl’s book, The Jewish State (“Der Judenstaat”). It was in part a response to the ongoing anti-Semitism in czarist Russia.

There are indeed Christian Zionists as well.
  • Liberian
 
Liberian said:
Cecilia,

Zionism started at the end of the nineteenth century with Theodore Herzl’s book, The Jewish State (“Der Judenstaat”). It was in part a response to the ongoing anti-Semitism in czarist Russia.

There are indeed Christian Zionists as well.
  • Liberian
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Thanks for the info, Liberian, I learn something every day here on the forums! 🙂

c
 
batteddy said:
THOSE are the Jews I like! (the non-zionist ones).

I have a real respect for the ultra-orthodox hasidim and such who reject the abomination which is the “state of israel”.

Oddly enough, or perhaps not so oddly, I don’t only respect them because they reject the zionist position. They are also the Jews whose religion and philosophy and lifestyle I independently respect the most.

I think because in some ways, when a Jew commits to Zionism…the rest of their faith gets tainted, and in some ways becomes subordinate to the ethnocentric nationalism.
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I also have a lot of respect for those in ultra-orthodox Judaism, I guess not because of anything they believe, specifically, but because they really live out their beliefs. It’s difficult to do that when it makes you seemingly at odds with the rest of the everyday world.

I was on a plane recently and there was a Hasidic rabbi who could not sit next to a woman. He insisted on changing seats before takeoff…not insisted in a rude way, but calmly and firmly. I don’t know if I would have the courage to stand out in public every day, day after day like that.
 
I also have a lot of respect for those in ultra-orthodox Judaism, I guess not because of anything they believe, specifically, but because they really live out their beliefs. It’s difficult to do that when it makes you seemingly at odds with the rest of the everyday world.
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Exactly. We had a unit in English last year where we read a novel about a Hasidic community, and watched a movie…and I really gained a lot of respect for them. They were really committed, but also nice people. Weary and sad in some ways…but Judaism is by it’s nature melancholy; it is in exile, persecuted, thinks it is still under the Law of bondage, and awaits a Messiah (who has already come)…
 
So what do you all think about one of the belief of these Jewish folk, where they say that the state of Israel that was created after WWII is not biblical because the Messiah is the one the bible speaks of bringing the jewish people back into the land.

Another thing they claim is Theodore Herzl used anti-semetism and supposedly wanted more jewish suffering in order to push his hopes of creating a jewish state, Israel.

I’ve always wondered how was it the the Jewish people in Israel did not question how the creation of their state was not according to biblical prophesy.
 
DaMaMaXiMuS said:
If so I’d like to know what is the official church position, if any.

I recently have come into contact with Jews who hold a peculiar belief. They claim that true Judaism and Zionism are in no way the same, and actually go as far as saying that Zionism at it’s core contradicts God and the Holy Torah. Their in complete opposition to their being a Jewish State as well as several other things.

I was given a couple of websites for these particular Jewish groups:

jewsagainstzionism.com/index.cfm

jewsnotzionists.org/index.htm

The information seems interesting, although I don’t know how accurate it is, but it seems plausible, at least in my opinion.

I’m curious to know if the Church (The Vatican), knows of such claims, if so, what do they say in regards to this.
Click to expand...
Judaism is a religion

Zionism is a movement with a socio-political aim
 
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