Jews, Muslims, the Divinity of Christ and Catholic Attitudes

[dronald]

They do NOT acknowledge these verses from the Book of Isaiah as speaking of the Messiah. The whole passage, as well as the surrounding contextual verses, is one of the most vigorously debated between Christians and Jews in all of Scripture. According to most Jewish interpretations, the “suffering servant” is the nation of Israel and does not refer at all to the Messiah. However, there is the belief that Israel will be redeemed during the Messianic era, which is in the future, at which point a renewed/reinvigorated covenant (not new covenant) will be established consisting of more intense studying, understanding, and following of Torah.

The passage certainly does read as if it’s speaking about a specific person. And assuming that the passage is a misinterpretation by Christians, you must admit that said misinterpretation has existed for all 2000 years of Christianity:

Acts 8: 30 So Philip ran to him and heard him reading Isaiah the prophet and asked, “Do you understand what you are reading?” 31 And he said, “How can I, unless someone guides me?” And he invited Philip to come up and sit with him. 32 Now the passage of the Scripture that he was reading was this:

“Like a sheep he was led to the slaughter
and like a lamb before its shearer is silent,
so he opens not his mouth.
33 In his humiliation justice was denied him.
Who can describe his generation?
For his life is taken away from the earth.”
34 And the eunuch said to Philip,** “About whom, I ask you, does the prophet say this, about himself or about someone else?”**

Notice that the eunuch didn’t even consider that it could possibly be about a place.

Although, the “servant” does not go ignored within Christian Scripture as it relates to Israel:

Luke 1:46 And Mary said,

“My soul magnifies the Lord,
47 and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior,
48 for he has looked on the humble estate of his servant.
For behold, from now on all generations will call me blessed;
49 for he who is mighty has done great things for me,
and holy is his name.
50 And his mercy is for those who fear him
from generation to generation.
51 He has shown strength with his arm;
he has scattered the proud in the thoughts of their hearts;
52 he has brought down the mighty from their thrones
and exalted those of humble estate;
53 he has filled the hungry with good things,
and the rich he has sent away empty.
54 He has helped his servant Israel,
in remembrance of his mercy,
55 as he spoke to our fathers,
to Abraham and to his offspring forever.”​

So we certainly recognize both.

 

[meltzerboy]

The passage certainly does read as if it’s speaking about a specific person. And assuming that the passage is a misinterpretation by Christians, you must admit that said misinterpretation has existed for all 2000 years of Christianity:

Acts 8: 30 So Philip ran to him and heard him reading Isaiah the prophet and asked, “Do you understand what you are reading?” 31 And he said, “How can I, unless someone guides me?” And he invited Philip to come up and sit with him. 32 Now the passage of the Scripture that he was reading was this:

“Like a sheep he was led to the slaughter
and like a lamb before its shearer is silent,
so he opens not his mouth.
33 In his humiliation justice was denied him.
Who can describe his generation?
For his life is taken away from the earth.”
34 And the eunuch said to Philip,** “About whom, I ask you, does the prophet say this, about himself or about someone else?”**

Notice that the eunuch didn’t even consider that it could possibly be about a place.

Although, the “servant” does not go ignored within Christian Scripture as it relates to Israel:

Luke 1:46 And Mary said,

“My soul magnifies the Lord,
47 and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior,
48 for he has looked on the humble estate of his servant.
For behold, from now on all generations will call me blessed;
49 for he who is mighty has done great things for me,
and holy is his name.
50 And his mercy is for those who fear him
from generation to generation.
51 He has shown strength with his arm;
he has scattered the proud in the thoughts of their hearts;
52 he has brought down the mighty from their thrones
and exalted those of humble estate;
53 he has filled the hungry with good things,
and the rich he has sent away empty.
54 He has helped his servant Israel,
in remembrance of his mercy,
55 as he spoke to our fathers,
to Abraham and to his offspring forever.”​

So we certainly recognize both.

The Jewish interpretation involving the plain meaning of the text is that Isaiah is talking about the nation of Israel or Jacob since Israel is spoken of in the singular masculine form in several verses preceding Isaiah 53 and explicitly called G-d’s suffering servant, as well as in the Books of Exodus and Hosea, for example, as if the nation were a person. The Book of Isaiah relates the struggles of the Jewish people against other nations and G-d’s merciful aid in its struggles, thus implicitly predicting its continued existence up to the Messianic era as well as its glorified presence at that time. Asher Norman discusses and debates the whole meaning of the passage in historical and theological context.

 

[dronald]

The Jewish interpretation involving the plain meaning of the text is that Isaiah is talking about the nation of Israel or Jacob since Israel is spoken of in the singular masculine form in several verses preceding Isaiah 53 and explicitly called G-d’s suffering servant, as well as in the Books of Exodus and Hosea, for example, as if the nation were a person. The Book of Isaiah relates the struggles of the Jewish people against other nations and G-d’s merciful aid in its struggles, thus implicitly predicting its continued existence up to the Messianic era as well as its glorified presence at that time. Asher Norman discusses and debates the whole meaning of the passage in historical and theological context.

Okay, but you must admit that due to the interpretation that it is referring to a man in The Acts (a first century book) there must have been some idea out there that it could indeed be referring to a man during the first century.

 

[Randy_Carson]

They do NOT acknowledge these verses from the Book of Isaiah as speaking of the Messiah. The whole passage, as well as the surrounding contextual verses, is one of the most vigorously debated between Christians and Jews in all of Scripture. According to most Jewish interpretations, the “suffering servant” is the nation of Israel and does not refer at all to the Messiah. However, there is the belief that Israel will be redeemed during the Messianic era, which is in the future, at which point a renewed/reinvigorated covenant (not new covenant) will be established consisting of more intense studying, understanding, and following of Torah.

I’m not trying to force any concessions from you with these questions, but I am curious:

When you compare some of the prophecies in the Hebrew Scriptures with the life of Jesus in the gospels, does it strike you that there are a lot of similarities or that many of the prophecies may be construed so as to be fulfilled in Jesus (or vice-versa)?

If not, okay. But if so, do you think these are simply coincidences or how would you account for them?

Finally, is it possible that the prophecies actually work on multiple levels? IOW, they were true of Israel, but they were also true of Jesus?

Thanks.