Jihadists call for France, Spain and the Vatican to be conquered

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Kaninchen said:
Hm,

There are posts on the Catholic Answers Forum calling for the establishment of a Catholic Theocracy (even a fascist Catholic Theocracy with nostalgia for Franco)!:eek:

Should non Catholics be calling on all Catholics to disown these sentiments?

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hola Kaninchen

what would be wrong with a Catholic Theocracy? i do not believe in any kind of fascism, especially one which would pervert or destroy the teachings of the Church… but rule by the Church would be a wonderful thing…

gracias

bist du Deutsche(r)?
 
Jayda said:
hola Kaninchen

what would be wrong with a Catholic Theocracy? i do not believe in any kind of fascism, especially one which would pervert or destroy the teachings of the Church… but rule by the Church would be a wonderful thing…
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That’s an argument for that particular thread (it’s in Social Justice). Rule by the Church might be a wonderful thing for you but for non-Catholic Christians and non-Christians, nevermind a considerable number of your co-religionists it’s not a pretty thought.

That wasn’t the point of my ‘intervention’. Somebody reported what some Islamic militant had said on some message board and I (more than half-jokingly) was pointing out a parallel ‘extreme-Catholicism’ (from an outsider’s point of view at least) and wondering whether us non-Catholics/non-Christians should make a similar fuss.
bist du Deutsche(r)?
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Nur ein bißchen, sono ebrea ma j’aime rabbits. 😉
 
I don’t you’d find us intentionally killing innocent civilians in order to fulfill the idea of a Catholic theocracy.

The article from Israel News indicates that there were several elements supporting the belief that some radical Islamists want to conquer France, etc., and with the comments we keep hearing from high-profile figures such as the Iranian president, Mullahs, UBL, etc., I don’t think it should be discounted as simply the ramblings of a few radicals.

Nowadays, if we are to remain safe, many things have to be taken more seriously than before the events of 9/11, and the massacre at Virginia Tech.
 
Kaninchen said:
That’s an argument for that particular thread (it’s in Social Justice). Rule by the Church might be a wonderful thing for you but for non-Catholic Christians and non-Christians, nevermind a considerable number of your co-religionists it’s not a pretty thought.

That wasn’t the point of my ‘intervention’. Somebody reported what some Islamic militant had said on some message board and I (more than half-jokingly) was pointing out a parallel ‘extreme-Catholicism’ (from an outsider’s point of view at least) and wondering whether us non-Catholics/non-Christians should make a similar fuss.
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hola Kaninchen

i do not think it is fair to compare Church rule to islamic shariah… from what i understand they have a much more developed legal system that deal with things Canon law does not… other than regulating Catholic participation in non Catholic events, or intermarriage i do not think the Church says anything about dictating to non Catholics what rights they have and do not have… there are rules to Catholics about mistreating non Catholics though… what is wrong with this?
Nur ein bißchen, sono ebrea ma j’aime rabbits. 😉
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danke, ich verstehe. ich fragte denn ihr Name ist auf Deutsch. L’italiano e poi francese?! lol Combien de langues parles-tu?
 
Kaninchen said:
Hm,

There are posts on the Catholic Answers Forum calling for the establishment of a Catholic Theocracy (even a fascist Catholic Theocracy with nostalgia for Franco)!:eek:

Should non Catholics be calling on all Catholics to disown these sentiments?

😃
Click to expand...
I wouldn’t want a Catholic (or any other) theocracy - I am happy to do what I wish others to do
 
Therefore, we should not overgeneralize or be hasty to rule out the possibility that peaceful versions of Islam will become dominant–but neither should we assume that peaceful Islam is the “real” Islam and militant Islam is an aberration of a tiny minority.
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up to your usual excellent standard 👍 I totally agree
we should neither rise to paranoia nor roll along in complacency
 
Jayda said:
i do not think it is fair to compare Church rule to islamic shariah… from what i understand they have a much more developed legal system that deal with things Canon law does not… other than regulating Catholic participation in non Catholic events, or intermarriage i do not think the Church says anything about dictating to non Catholics what rights they have and do not have… there are rules to Catholics about mistreating non Catholics though… what is wrong with this?
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This is an argument for the original thread, Jayda. A theocracy does imply government though, the Church would be legislating for the rest of us as well and, even if that rule were predicted to be benign, I would expect that a very, very large proportion of us would turn down the opportunity. Meanwhile, you might have noticed the ‘scream’ and ‘laugh’ in my original post?
danke, ich verstehe. ich fragte denn ihr Name ist auf Deutsch. L’italiano e poi francese?! lol Combien de langues parles-tu?
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I’m reasonably competent in 3 languages and can survive in a couple more but I’m a European . . . .
 
THis threat is real, and if the Bishops were smart they would start pounding out the issue of Petrine Authority. Does Petrine authority come from the fact that the Pope is the Bishop of Rome or whether he is the successor of Peter. What if there is no more Rome? Would the Church survive?

I asked that of my priest and he said both. I then hypothesized that if Peter died in Greece, the Greek patriarch should be Pope. But we all know he died in Rome. So, can the Bishop of Rome assign himself to a different diocese?

And if you think the lesson of Avignon was that the pope should be in Rome, you may be wrong. I think the lesson was that the Pope should not be another nation’s puppet.
 
exoflare said:
I’m continually amazed. Just how far are certain people going to go out of their way to defend Islam no matter what? What does it take before people realize that a religion’s teachings are BAD… if evidence that the majority of Muslims support the practice of murdering apostates (much less, that this is orthodox Islamic teaching anyway) .
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Please provide evidence that a majority of Muslims support Al Qaeda, and/or that orthodox Islamic teaching sanctions the indiscriminate killing of civilians.

It’s not about defending Islam, it’s about defending truth.

Edwin
 
France, Spain, And the Vatican ?

What happened ? Did they give up on Israel ?

I have so much respect for Israel after their decision to hold a nation accountable for allowing terrorists free reign in their country.

Terrorism needs to be redefined. It has become a means of waging war, without being held accountable.

When is the West and it’s allies going to see this ? Or a better question is, when are they going to see this and make it clear to Iran and Syria that funding and supplying terrorist groups will be considered an act of war ?

Oil or no oil, the time has come to crush this problem while we can do so without risking nuclear exchange.

Then again we could wait for Israel to fight our battles for us :o
 
Contarini said:
Please provide evidence that a majority of Muslims support Al Qaeda, and/or that orthodox Islamic teaching sanctions the indiscriminate killing of civilians.

It’s not about defending Islam, it’s about defending truth.

Edwin
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Does it matter whether or not it is a majority? A minority with aberrant views and sufficient power (political or military) can wreak plenty of havoc.

Hitler and the thousands of soldiers under him were so-called Christians. Same for the Ku Klux Klan. Neither of these groups (Nazis or the Klan) abided by Christian principles, and they were a minority of the total number of Christians worldwide. Other Judaeo-Christian nations (along with the Soviet Union) rose up to stop him.

How far will the minority of radical Islamists be allowed to go before many nations band together to stop them? And how far will they have to go before the majority of Islamists rise up to help stop them?
 
Larry1700 said:
Does it matter whether or not it is a majority?
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Exoflare asserted that it was.

Whether it matters or not depends on what we are talking about. Of course a minority can cause damage. But obviously some people think it’s important to assert that it is a majority, and they need to provide evidence for this, which they cannot do.

Edwin
 
Contarini said:
Exoflare asserted that it was.

Whether it matters or not depends on what we are talking about. Of course a minority can cause damage. But obviously some people think it’s important to assert that it is a majority, and they need to provide evidence for this, which they cannot do.

Edwin
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Sorry Contarini, I wasn’t rebutting you. I just quoted your post because it mentioned “majority” and “minority.” I apologize for the misunderstanding.
 
Contarini said:
Please provide evidence that a majority of Muslims support Al Qaeda, and/or that orthodox Islamic teaching sanctions the indiscriminate killing of civilians.
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Why should I defend something I never even claimed?
It’s not about defending Islam, it’s about defending truth.

Edwin
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The truth is that Islam teaches that apostates must be killed. This is a central teaching for them, and it isn’t open to debate even if some people don’t want to believe it.
 
exoflare said:
Why should I defend something I never even claimed?

The truth is that Islam teaches that apostates must be killed. This is a central teaching for them, and it isn’t open to debate even if some people don’t want to believe it.
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Exoflare,

My apologies–I did not read your post carefully. I took “murdering” for an adjective and thought you were saying that most Muslims supported what al-Qaeda was doing. Since most members of al-Qaeda aren’t apostates from anything, this was an unjustified interpretation of your post. I was reading it in the light of the previous discussion, and I apologize for my carelessness.

I agree that the traditional Islamic view does seem to be that apostates should be killed. There are clearly Muslims who dispute that. Which group constitutes a majority today I am not certain, but I would not want to bet my life (which if I were a convert to Christianity in an Islamic country I would have to do!) on the more moderate view being dominant!

I’ll go further–the historical records show that Muslims sometimes tricked or coerced non-Muslims into saying something approaching the “shahada,” and then ordered them to follow through with it on pain of death. There are a number of Orthodox “New Martyrs” who died that way under the Turks. (Christians ruling over Muslims sometimes did similarly cruel and cynical things, it must be added.) The prevalence of these stories shows how universally it was assumed in the past that apostates must be killed.

Edwin
 
** " Jihadists call for France, Spain and the Vatican to be conquered** "

PEACEFULLY OF COURSE. :whistle:
 
Kaninchen said:
Hm,

There are posts on the Catholic Answers Forum calling for the establishment of a Catholic Theocracy (even a fascist Catholic Theocracy with nostalgia for Franco)!:eek:

Should non Catholics be calling on all Catholics to disown these sentiments?

😃
Click to expand...
And I believe they who propose such a theocracy are in a minority here, and like cestus above, I likewise disown it. Besides, those who call for a Catholic theocracy here believe it should be established only on a Catholic country. Muslims on the other hand want to impose their own brand of theocracy even on non-muslim countries, lands that were never muslim in the first place.
 
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