Job 33:29

[Dorothy]

Here is a site that has information about what early Christian writers had to say about reincarnation:

catholic.com/tracts/reincarnation

It doesn’t address about Jews believing it, but I accept that some may have. Since they did not have the knowledge of the Incarnation and the birth, life, death and resurrection of Our Lord Jesus Christ then I can understand why they would speculate.

 

[TheSeeker2014]

Here is a site that has information about what early Christian writers had to say about reincarnation:

catholic.com/tracts/reincarnation

It doesn’t address about Jews believing it, but I accept that some may have. Since they did not have the knowledge of the Incarnation and the birth, life, death and resurrection of Our Lord Jesus Christ then I can understand why they would speculate.

interesting link. However I was not talking about animal reincarnations.

Elijah, I was reading in the Catechism Today about how the Church understands John the Baptist being called Elijah. And they said that He was called Elijah not because he was, but because he was the last of the prophets starting with Elijah and they got their Oracles from the Spirit of God (Holy Spirit). Thus they share the same Spirit but not spirit. Spirit would be from God, while spirit would be individual souls of the two men. That very well be the reason people get that mixed with reincarnation… because people, when talking about this scenario, do not upper case the S in spirit as they should. In another language other than English, say, Greek, it would have been a different word… AS English is a very poor language to have the bible in, the difference in the two very different words is the upper casing or lower casing.

Thanks for the link though.

 

[Dorothy]

interesting link. However I was not talking about animal reincarnations.

Elijah, I was reading in the Catechism Today about how the Church understands John the Baptist being called Elijah. And they said that He was called Elijah not because he was, but because he was the last of the prophets starting with Elijah and they got their Oracles from the Spirit of God (Holy Spirit). Thus they share the same Spirit but not spirit. Spirit would be from God, while spirit would be individual souls of the two men. That very well be the reason people get that mixed with reincarnation… because people, when talking about this scenario, do not upper case the S in spirit as they should. In another language other than English, say, Greek, it would have been a different word… AS English is a very poor language to have the bible in, the difference in the two very different words is the upper casing or lower casing.

Thanks for the link though.

Yes, in the past I have heard of Christians getting mixed up about John the Baptist and Elijah and thinking that it was a reincarnation.

The vulnerability of people can cause much confusion. That is why I believe when our Lord Jesus Christ started His Church, he gave the Holy Spirit so that we would have correct teaching and doctrine from the Church’s authority.

Matthew 28:19, 20: “Full authority has been given to me both in heaven and on earth; go, therefore,
and make disciples of all the nations. Baptize them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. Teach them to carry out everything I have commanded you, and know that I am with you always, until the end of the world.”

 

[Gorgias]

one of the things making me wonder is there have been quite a few young kids who apparently had memories of their past lives…at first I didnt believe this, but after reading further, it was proven that the memories they mentioned were true…so how could a young kid know so much about someone elses life, and have detailed knowledge about things that took place long before they were even born?

Id like to see how this is debunked, because from what I saw and read, it does truly seem like reincarnation or something like it, does happen to some people.

I would say that it can be debunked according to the way in which it was ‘proven’. The first thing that comes to mind is that cold reading is a very effective technique for ‘discovering’ things, especially if the reader is guiding a person in the direction he wants them to go.

 

[TheSeeker2014]

Yes, in the past I have heard of Christians getting mixed up about John the Baptist and Elijah and thinking that it was a reincarnation.

The vulnerability of people can cause much confusion. That is why I believe when our Lord Jesus Christ started His Church, he gave the Holy Spirit so that we would have correct teaching and doctrine from the Church’s authority.

Matthew 28:19, 20: “Full authority has been given to me both in heaven and on earth; go, therefore,
and make disciples of all the nations. Baptize them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. Teach them to carry out everything I have commanded you, and know that I am with you always, until the end of the world.”

and to be a comfort

 

[Dorothy]

and to be a comfort

Amen…

 

[openmind77]

I agree, I personally have an open mind to it as it was never directly addressed in scripture. And I know it was a very common belief in Jesus day … and then the info I know about with many Jews accepting reincarnation belief. EDIT: Jews of Jesus day.

But, if reincarnation was true, who would be reincarnated? Those who follow God and need reproofing? If so then would this be a type of purgatory? If it is those that break Gods law and rebel against him knowingly? If so what is the point? They obviously made their decision. What about those who dont know God? Many people believe everyone has a chance to accept Jesus… but there is no grantee of that ideal. Possible.

I wouldn’t want to tempt you with whatever reincarnation is supposed to tempt you with, but reincarnation happens to everyone (including believers, nonbelievers, sinners, good people, bad people etc), again and again until you attain perfection.

The only people who don’t reincarnate are those who have become perfect - they no longer need to reincarnate.

It is really not important whether you believe in reincarnation now or not, but this will be a cause of major dissension and crisis in the Church when the Christ returns and reintroduces the concept of reincarnation. Many will reject him saying he is changing Church doctrine or mistaking him for the ‘evil’ one. This event could happen sooner than you think

As far as the OP’s question, I don’t think Job 33:39 refers to reincarnation at all

 

[ephesians2]

‘‘29Behold, all these things God worketh three times within every one.’’

Now my question/discussion point is this: is this a True statement? Job did not dispute this point plus the Spirit allowed the discourse within scripture.

Now another point I thought of… is this limited to one lifetime? Is this possibly speaking of reincarnation? My thought process sorta goes along these lines… that God works within us thrice to perfect us… once under the old Covenant, once in the New with grace, and once when we are in the Kingdom… thoughts?/QUOTE

Another version says, “…twice, three times, with a man…”

This is not a reference to Reincarnation if this is what you are wondering. Reincarnation contradicts the Gospel of Christ Jesus.

If you read the entire chapter, Elihu (Job’s friend) gives his opinion after Job’s other friends have given theirs- which made Job feel worse than he already did. From what I can gather, Elihu is conveying to Job that God allows suffering as a way for one to cling to God in repentance. Since no one is perfect, this happens over and over throughout life.

Job’s friends contradicted eachother in their “words of wisdom”. God speaks to Job in chapters 38-42. An absolutely breathtaking part of the Bible. God rebukes Job’s friends in Chapter 42: 7-9.

 

[GEddie]

I wouldn’t want to tempt you with whatever reincarnation is supposed to tempt you with, but reincarnation happens to everyone (including believers, nonbelievers, sinners, good people, bad people etc), again and again until you attain perfection.

The only people who don’t reincarnate are those who have become perfect - they no longer need to reincarnate.

It is really not important whether you believe in reincarnation now or not, but this will be a cause of major dissension and crisis in the Church when the Christ returns and reintroduces the concept of reincarnation. Many will reject him saying he is changing Church doctrine or mistaking him for the ‘evil’ one. This event could happen sooner than you think

As far as the OP’s question, I don’t think Job 33:39 refers to reincarnation at all

I won’t argue against your claim, because it is consistent with your beliefs, though completely foreign to the books of Scripture, including the book of Job.

Job himself said that at the last, even though his skin would disintegrate (ie, death) his “own eyes” would behold the LORD. Not the eyes of another being who inherited the scattered remnants of his karma.

And both our LORD and Saint Paul warned about false Christs and false messages counter to what has been taught. Don’t fall for them, anybody!

God Bless and ICXC NIKA.

 

[GEddie]

How is that possible? Does satan actually have the ability to change how a person looks?

If, as claimed in some exorcismal accounts, people’s heads have turned completely around, etc., I’d have to say yes.

Children’s faces change so rapidly in any case that grownups may see a resemblance that isn’t there.

ICXC NIKA

 

[Gorgias]

reincarnation happens to everyone (including believers, nonbelievers, sinners, good people, bad people etc), again and again until you attain perfection.

The only people who don’t reincarnate are those who have become perfect - they no longer need to reincarnate.

It is really not important whether you believe in reincarnation now or not, but this will be a cause of major dissension and crisis in the Church when the Christ returns and reintroduces the concept of reincarnation.

Erm… this would be the Christ who looked at the criminal on the cross and said “this day you will be with me in Paradise”? The criminal who was being justly punished for his sins… had “become perfect” and “no longer need[ed] to reincarnate”?

 

[Dorothy]

I wouldn’t want to tempt you with whatever reincarnation is supposed to tempt you with, but reincarnation happens to everyone (including believers, nonbelievers, sinners, good people, bad people etc), again and again until you attain perfection.

The only people who don’t reincarnate are those who have become perfect - they no longer need to reincarnate.

It is really not important whether you believe in reincarnation now or not, but this will be a cause of major dissension and crisis in the Church when the Christ returns and reintroduces the concept of reincarnation. Many will reject him saying he is changing Church doctrine or mistaking him for the ‘evil’ one. This event could happen sooner than you think

As far as the OP’s question, I don’t think Job 33:39 refers to reincarnation at all

Reincarnation is what people believed before Divine Revelation. God revealed Himself gradually, starting with Abraham.

The Precious Blood of Jesus Christ is enough for one life. He is Lord, Second Person of the Blessed Trinity, who became man to die for our sins. The Holy One, the Merciful One, the Divine Saviour of all!

Come Holy Spirit, Spirit of Love, set our hearts on fire to bring the Truth to all!

 

[TheSeeker2014]

I wouldn’t want to tempt you with whatever reincarnation is supposed to tempt you with, but reincarnation happens to everyone (including believers, nonbelievers, sinners, good people, bad people etc), again and again until you attain perfection.

The only people who don’t reincarnate are those who have become perfect - they no longer need to reincarnate.

It is really not important whether you believe in reincarnation now or not, but this will be a cause of major dissension and crisis in the Church when the Christ returns and reintroduces the concept of reincarnation. Many will reject him saying he is changing Church doctrine or mistaking him for the ‘evil’ one. This event could happen sooner than you think

As far as the OP’s question, I don’t think Job 33:39 refers to reincarnation at all

I realize the common belief of reincarnation is for everyone and the only ones who do not are those who have become perfect and it doesnt matter if you believe in it or not…

I was saying WITH WHAT WE ALREADY KNOW ABOUT CHRIST IN THE SCRIPTS, is IF reincarnation was real, the logical question would be “who would be reincarnated”? As the scripts talk about how no one is perfect except through Christ’s blood. Then the hints of purgatory;l and the judgement of those who reject Christ, obviously, reincarnation IF real would not be for everyone, and certainly not for those who made up their mind about Christ whether for or against.
So, who would be reincarnated IF it was real to any extent??? probably those who did not get the chance to know about Christ and/or could not choose for themselves for various reasons. As purgatory is obviously not the earth in various hints… it is somewhere else.
However earlier, someone made a point about the Resurrection and bodies.

 

[openmind77]

I realize the common belief of reincarnation is for everyone and the only ones who do not are those who have become perfect and it doesnt matter if youd believe in it or not…

I was saying WITH WHAT WE ALREADY KNOW ABOUT CHRIST IN THE SCRIPTS, is IF reincarnation was real, the logical question would be “who would be reincarnated”? As the scripts talk about how no one is perfect except through Christ’s blood. Then the hints of purgatory;l and the judgement of those who reject Christ, obviously, reincarnation IF real would not be for everyone, and certainly not for those who made up their mind about Christ whether for or against.
So, who would be reincarnated IF it was real to any extent??? probably those who did not get the chance to know about Christ and/or could not choose for themselves for various reasons. As purgatory is obviously not the earth in various hints… it is somewhere else.
However earlier, someone made a point about the Resurrection and bodies.

If you believe you have been perfected (through the Christ’s blood or some other way) then you will definitely not reincarnate. So good luck to you.

 

[juliamajor]

This had to be one of the silliest threads ever. Reincarnation? Did anyone really read the whole chapter? Didn’t ever read the whole book of Job?
Job is about God being on trial. The whole book is set up like courtroom .you those who want to defend God (mainly Job’s friends) and prosecution ,which is Job’s whole tale of woe.
The belief was and is still seen in some quarters ,that only wrongdoers get badly punished, the righteous will live long and carefree lives having been blessed by God for their goodness and sinners lives will be filled with terrible problems ,poor health and a short miserable life. According to his friends, no matter how he denies it, Job must have been a horrible evil sinner who’s sins are coming to light because God has made it evident by " punishment" visited on him. The trouble is no matter how good or logical it sounds all his friends are wrong.
The verse you picked out comes amid verses saying “if only you will repent Job,God will take you back into the fold .” Elihu is correct when he says God will forgive Job and mankind many times. That is the meaning twice and thrice
Job 33 :28-30
“He rescued my soul from going down into the pit, and gave me life to enjoy the light. God does all that to man, twice even thrice, to turn him back from the pit, to lead him into the light
Of life.” Archaic Translations can throw meaning of scripture all over the place. These, are very clear verses about God loving humanity enough to take a chance on forgiving humans. If you read it entirely in context, it should be even clearer.
Elihu is not altogether wrong here .God’s loving kindness wants no one to be unsaved and will try time after time to bring him back to Him. He however, is self righteous and completely wrong about Job.

 

[ephesians2]

This had to be one of the silliest threads ever. Reincarnation?.

I’m pretty sure that is why no one responded. What you said, had already been said. Reincarnation is against the Gospel and there is no Scriptural basis for it. Period.

 

[juliamajor]

I’m pretty sure that is why no one responded. What you said, had already been said. Reincarnation is against the Gospel and there is no Scriptural basis for it. Period.

It had 35 responses.That’s 34 too many

 

[ephesians2]

It had 35 responses.That’s 34 too many

Very true!

I suppose some want to hold on to a false hope that they will get a second chance (or two or three) to make up for their mistakes/sins. Or worse, their unbelief in Christ’s sufficient work on the cross.