John 13:5

[mussel]

Some liberal theologians attempt to use Jn 13:5 to claim that disciples other than the 12 were present at the Last Supper. Does anyone know of a document from the ordinary or extraordinary Magisterium that can be used to refute that claim?

 

[space_ghost]

…i’m not sure there is an official statement regarding the exact number present at the last supper, but i am sure some of our resident know-it-all’s , just kidding, apologist can help you with a correct answer…

 

[Dr.Colossus]

:bible1: “Then he poured water into a basin and began to wash the disciples’ feet and dry them with the towel around his waist.” John 13:5

What? How does this prove anything? John always referred to Christ’s followers (be they Apostles or not) as disciples. The other Gospels clearly state that it was the 12.

 

[Della]

mussel:

Some liberal theologians attempt to use Jn 13:5 to claim that disciples other than the 12 were present at the Last Supper. Does anyone know of a document from the ordinary or extraordinary Magisterium that can be used to refute that claim?

That particular passage says nothing at all about how many disciples were present. However, Luke 22:14 limits those there to Jesus and the Apostles. I suppose those arguing for more people present are using the difference between Luke’s use of the word apostle and John’s use of the word disciple. The only real difference is that John and Luke were writing to different people when they wrote their Gospels and so used different terminology for the same things. After all, the Apostles were disciples, so using the word disciple here doesn’t designate anything more than what Luke wrote. Anyone who tries to make more of it than that would have to argue from silence, which is untenable in this case.

 

[Aris]

I’m curious. So what if there were more than 13 people in the Last Supper? What will that prove?

I am in the opinion that there had to be more than 13 people. The owner of the house, the servants, the family of the owner etc. They probably were disciples also.

 

[Dr.Colossus]

Aris:

I’m curious. So what if there were more than 13 people in the Last Supper? What will that prove?

It would open the possibilitiy that Mary Magdalene was also present, which then opens the can-of-worms that is female priesthood.

I am in the opinion that there had to be more than 13 people. The owner of the house, the servants, the family of the owner etc. They probably were disciples also.

The owner of the house was probably in the house, but there is no reason from the Gospels to believe he or anyone else was in the upper room.

 

[jbmccormick]

I’m not a philosopher, however, wouldn’t any attempt to read anything into this based on what is not said attempting to make an “argument from silence”? Making the matter even more frustrating is that other references appear clear that only the 12 and Jesus were present.

Just curious.

Jim