John 20:17

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I was watching the movie “The King of Kings” Easter night and near the end of the movie Jesus tells Mary Magdalene: "Jesus said to her, “do not hold me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to my brethren and say to them, I am ascending to my Father and your Father to my God and your God”.

Can someone explain the meaning of this verse? Didn’t Jesus ascend to the Father after the Resurrection? Why could Mary not touch/hold him? Didn’t Thomas touch him to prove the wounds were real and still there? The footnote in my bible didn’t really help clear up things for me or answer my questions.

I’d appreciate any comments.
 
As I understand it, the Greek does not say touch or hold, it says “cling”.

He did not want others clinging to Him because He was leaving them again. Even in His case, when someone has died, we do not get them back, not in the original relationship that once existed.

Touching is ok, viz: Thomas. Clinging and holding, however, seek a physical relationship that was gone (or one that would not exist until Heaven).

ICXC NIKA.
 
As I understand it, the Greek does not say touch or hold, it says “cling”.
Cling is a more permanent touch; that would be a middle voiced perfect tense; but the passage in John doesn’t have that. On the other hand, I think your interpretation is about as solid as anyone elses on that particular spelling in John … I personally haven’t figured it out yet ! 😃
He did not want others clinging to Him because He was leaving them again. Even in His case, when someone has died, we do not get them back, not in the original relationship that once existed.
Touching is ok, viz: Thomas. Clinging and holding, however, seek a physical relationship that was gone (or one that would not exist until Heaven).
ICXC NIKA.
The particular word and spelling used in John 20:17 is rather unique.
Touch is not spelled exactly that way anywhere else in the bible, NT or OT.

A typical example of spelling “touch” in Greek is found in Psalm 104:15:

Psalm 104:15 μη απτ-εσθε των χριστων μου και εν τοις προφηταις μου μη πονηρευεσθε
Psalm 104:15 Touch ye not my anointed: and do no evil to my prophets.

The word is used in three general kinds of contexts throughout scripture:

When an item was exceedingly valuable, or dangerous; In that case handling it (or even touching it briefly), was a taboo out of fear.

This includes people’s wives (pharaoh vs. Sarai), belongings (Sinner tribes and their incense in the desert…, The fruit of a certain tree in Eden ), dead bodies of people and animals, etc., and even very clean but ritual/holy items (a newly sanctified altar.)

The third way the word is used is to mark out a boundary, or an extent, that something may “reach” to. One long curtain may reach, join, or “touch” it’s neighbor; Often enemies would touch together on points that they agree on (join together.); but says something like “they touch together” (meaning act together…), etc.

The context in John has several elements:
The angels have spoken Jesus’ words to Mary Mag., and there is no one else around to have witnessed the accounts we read in scripture. Mary, herself, then must have told the apostles the words that were said – and admitted that she did not understand/believe these people to be divine angels in a clear mind.
Rather, she admits being confused and told the angels that she wants the body.
Which she came, specifically, to finish handling for BURIAL. Eg: she came to finish embalming it.

When Jesus repeats the exact same words the angels have spoken (or rather, that HE spoke through them), notice in the account – she does not recognize him EITHER; she CONTINUES to seek a dead body.

However, when Jesus finally uses her NAME, then (and only then) she recognizes him – and it is immediately followed by a cryptic prohibition that may or not be against “touching” him.

That connection and the stubborn-ness of her believing a body is to be buried suggests that she may still be thinking “Is this really a dead body I am talking to that needs to be buried?”

The reaction, then, is: Whoa, there, Mary – I don’t need more bandages and slime; I haven’t finished dying yet.

In any event, the Greek spelling in John 17 is mildly problematic:

What John has is:

John 20:17 λεγει αυτη ιησους μη μ-ου απτ-ου ουπω γαρ αναβεβηκα προς τον πατερα πορευου δε προς τους αδελφους μου και ειπε αυτοις αναβαινω προς τον πατερα μου και πατερα υμων και θεον μου και θεον υμων

The first bold word is a negation; “mE” which is used for reversing the sense of a verb or an “ing” word…

However, the next word “mou” is not a verb or an “ing” word…
Rather it is the word of possession or ownership (eg: – of-me / mine – a “genitive”) That is followed by a word which NORMALLY would have a verb ending…

At first glance it looks Genitive (in agreement with the previous word.); but if we take it to be a verb ending – it would just about have to be a word in the “second person Imperfect Middle voice”. However such a tense and voice expects an extra letter (an augment) to be added to the word – “touch” – and the prefix simply is not there. Since there are no other examples I can check this with, though, there is no way to determine if this spelling in John is a mistake – or just a convention for that particular word 🤷.

Assuming the voice/tense is still correct – Jesus is telling her about an event that happened in their mutual past – but is NOT happening Now.
Jesus, then, isn’t saying “don’t keep touching me…”; Rather his thought is along a subtly different line…

“Before, You yourself, of-me couldn’t touch; for not-yet I have-ascended-perfectly to The Father”

There are some issues with double negations, and how to harmonize the sense of the passage … but I can’t solve those now; I don’t know enough.

There are also additional minor grammatical oddities; eg: “The” is not dative, but accusative. In any event, the sentence is about a reversal in ability to touch something belonging to Jesus. (his body?)

Contrast it to another place where the SAME ROOT word for “touching” is used:

Luke 7:39 And the Pharisee, who had invited him, seeing it, spoke within himself, saying: This man, if he were if a prophet, would know surely who and what manner of woman this is that toucheth him, that she is a sinner.
Luke 7:39 … η γυνη ητις απτ-ε-ται αυτου οτι αμαρτωλος εστιν

Luke 7:48 And he said to her: Thy sins are forgiven thee.
Luke 7:49 And they that sat at meat with him began to say within themselves: Who is this that forgiveth sins also?
Luke 7:50 And he said to the woman: Thy faith hath made thee safe. Go in peace.
 
I think I’ve read where this was later taken as a Eucharistic thing – after Jesus goes to the Father in the Ascension (which is also the act of presenting Himself as High Priest to the Father after His sacrifice as the Passover Lamb, just like the High Priest presented himself to the Holy of Holies after the Passover lambs had been sacrificed), then the Lamb can be touched and eaten (as the people ate the Passover lambs, thus completing the sacrifice, while the High Priest was up doing Holy of Holies stuff).

There’s also speculation that at that point, having just been resurrected, Jesus was either too holy to touch safely (zzzap! Worse than the Ark of the Covenant!) or that Mary was about to anoint Him again with the perfume jar, and that had already been done and was over. It might also be that He wanted her to act as a messenger and get the other disciples moving, whereas her natural inclination would have been to stick around and hug Him and ask Him lots of questions, and maybe make up a canticle of celebration.

I think it’s supposed to be a little bit mysterious for us. Sometimes Jesus was just a bit inscrutable and unpredictable. (“Aslan isn’t a tame lion.”) God always does stuff for a good reason, but that doesn’t mean it’s a reason immediately obvious to us.
 
I think there are multiple layers of meaning here. In the most immediate, I believe Jesus’ words were meant as a sort of comfort to Mary. “Do not cling to Me…”, meaning His death is ultimately a good thing, and she should not attempt to mourn over or dwell on his corporal passing. It could also hold a more spiritual meaning as well, in the sense that she should focus on what is truly important (the reconciliation between man and the Father) as referenced by His words “for I have not yet ascended to the Father”.

He seems to reinforce the latter with His instruction " but go to my brethren and say to them, I am ascending to my Father and your Father to my God and your God". I don’t think the wording is coincidence; there seems to be an emphasis on my Father AND your Father…my God AND YOUR God.

I don’t know that there is any reason for Mary not to touch Him; I take this verse as more of Jesus telling her basically that she should not worry. It seems more that He is simply offering her solace, and telling her not to worry, this will ultimately be “ok”, don’t dwell on this moment, but instead go tell everyone else the good to come from this.
 
I think I’ve read where this was later taken as a Eucharistic thing – after Jesus goes to the Father in the Ascension (which is also the act of presenting Himself as High Priest to the Father after His sacrifice as the Passover Lamb, just like the High Priest presented himself to the Holy of Holies after the Passover lambs had been sacrificed), then the Lamb can be touched and eaten (as the people ate the Passover lambs, thus completing the sacrifice, while the High Priest was up doing Holy of Holies stuff).
That’s in Hebrew’s; with, perhaps, more precision.
There’s also speculation that at that point, having just been resurrected, Jesus was either too holy to touch safely (zzzap! Worse than the Ark of the Covenant!) or that Mary was about to anoint Him again with the perfume jar, and that had already been done and was over.
Yes; They were in a severe Hurry to bury him; so they didn’t get to technically take the time to properly bury him according to their customs – but it had been done haphazardly already.

He had died, in the sense of end of bodily consciousness and breathing; although he had not finished dying (nor will he ever) in the sense of his body being released from control and beginning to disintegrate and rot; So they saw fit to bury him, supposing him in danger of rot although he was not.
It might also be that He wanted her to act as a messenger and get the other disciples moving, whereas her natural inclination would have been to stick around and hug Him and ask Him lots of questions, and maybe make up a canticle of celebration.
I think it’s supposed to be a little bit mysterious for us. Sometimes Jesus was just a bit inscrutable and unpredictable. (“Aslan isn’t a tame lion.”) God always does stuff for a good reason, but that doesn’t mean it’s a reason immediately obvious to us.
🙂 I like your post; thank you for sharing it; it does provoke some meditation – which is a bit more satisfying that mere study as I was doing before. Study and small mistakes; OY!

I am thinking, the disciples and the 12 (the select of the Apostles), saw him over the next several weeks on a fairly regular basis. Not, of course, predictable as to which group he would visit when – but in that he regularly showed up for actual meals; in an actual body with bones, flesh, wounds – and a stomach willing to eat fish, bread, wine, and other normal consumables that a ghost – or SUPER being wouldn’t actually need.

It occurs to me that we sort of expect him to be super-human after the resurrection; and even before he has ascended to the Father to eat of his food eternally. Moses, of course, in the presence of God on Mt. Sinai, for 40 days – did not need to eat; and came back down the mountain full of vigor and life; He only ascended the mountain, not all the way to the state of Heaven – but, it is a sign worth considering.

It strikes me, then, that Jesus was still human; still a servant who had emptied himself (resurrected perhaps, but we may inspect other resurrected beings from the past – and note the resurrection BY ITSELF, did not exempt them from the normal tasks of life.).

I am considering that Jesus had been through quite an ordeal; was undoubtedly taxed by it mentally, if not physically. The betrayal being only days old, had to still smart profusely. And, he needed some time to heal, perhaps not physically, but by having time to himself to pray. His ability to suffer or perhaps sacrifice changed at the resurrection, but did not entirely end with certitude. Hebrews speaks of the end to suffering after he went to heaven.

There is, I think, a good reason to believe that his words to her were more a kindness in a difficult situation, than a decree of his kingship. He is not beyond using another person’s excessive and unnecessary piety to bring about a proper relationship.

Luke 24:17 And he said to them: What are these discourses that you hold one with another as you walk and are sad?

And Cleophas notices the evasion if not outright subterfuge…

Luke 24:18 And the one of them, whose name was Cleophas, answering, said to him: Art thou only a stranger in Jerusalem,** and hast not known the things that have been done there in these days? **

Luke 24:19 To whom he said: **What things? **

This Jesus, whom can decide between scruples and innocent subtlety.

Matth 10:16 Behold I send you as sheep in the midst of wolves. Be ye therefore wise as serpents and simple as doves.

It’s because of this, that I read the account of what he said to Mary Magdaline as a difficulty or necessity of the moment, and not an absolute teaching of some kind.
 
I think there are multiple layers of meaning here. In the most immediate, I believe Jesus’ words were meant as a sort of comfort to Mary. “Do not cling to Me…”, meaning His death is ultimately a good thing, and she should not attempt to mourn over or dwell on his corporal passing. It could also hold a more spiritual meaning as well, in the sense that she should focus on what is truly important (the reconciliation between man and the Father) as referenced by His words “for I have not yet ascended to the Father”.
:hmmm:
Perhaps:
John 16:6 But because I have spoken these things to you, sorrow hath filled your heart. **
John 16:7 But I tell you the truth: it is expedient to you that I go. For
if I go not**, the Paraclete will not come to you: but if I go, I will send him to you.
He seems to reinforce the latter with His instruction " but go to my brethren and say to them, I am ascending to my Father and your Father to my God and your God". I don’t think the wording is coincidence; there seems to be an emphasis on my Father AND your Father…my God AND YOUR God.
His side had been opened, therefore his bride – the church – and our covenant making us brothers; had just been performed. He is now, like Adam, awake from sleep with a wife, an altar of Paradise, and there is still a serpent that can harm her ??
I don’t know that there is any reason for Mary not to touch Him; I take this verse as more of Jesus telling her basically that she should not worry. It seems more that He is simply offering her solace, and telling her not to worry, this will ultimately be “ok”, don’t dwell on this moment, but instead go tell everyone else the good to come from this.
hmm… yes, I think that’s in the tenderness of the moment he said “Mary” and risked letting her social instincts, or preoccupation, place stress on any of his other desires for the moment; eg: after having spoken through angels, rather than directly to her in a recognizable form.
🙂
 
In johns gospel there is no shortage of mysterious encounters with Jesus. many take this as Johns theologizing and transforming of the man Jesus into the God Christ. but I have to wonder and actually believe that John probably was relating as literally as possible in order to present the best possible case.

Just random off topic thought.

Petek
 
I was watching the movie “The King of Kings” Easter night and near the end of the movie Jesus tells Mary Magdalene: "Jesus said to her, “do not hold me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to my brethren and say to them, I am ascending to my Father and your Father to my God and your God”.

Can someone explain the meaning of this verse? Didn’t Jesus ascend to the Father after the Resurrection? Why could Mary not touch/hold him? Didn’t Thomas touch him to prove the wounds were real and still there? The footnote in my bible didn’t really help clear up things for me or answer my questions.

I’d appreciate any comments.
It is puzzling (as with the "on this day you will be with me in Paradise)… I can only surmise that there are things about God that we do not comprehend… Jesus speaks of ascending to the Father (not the Ascension) as to Unite with Him… and Jesus challange to Thomas seems to imply that since it was only hours later that He had no problems with someone touching Him… compare this issue with the event that took place on the road to Emmaus… how the disciples did not recognize Jesus till the breaking of the Bread… since God exists both in time and out of time and in our temporal world and outside of it there could very well be certain chronological experiences that must take place (one more comparable is found here:
5 And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.
11 I will remain in the world no longer, but they are still in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, protect them by the power of your name, the name you gave me, so that they may be one as we are one. 12 While I was with them, I protected them and kept them safe by that name you gave me. None has been lost except the one doomed to destruction so that Scripture would be fulfilled.
13 “I am coming to you now, but I say these things while I am still in the world, so that they may have the full measure of my joy within them. 14 I have given them your word and the world has hated them, for they are not of the world any more than I am of the world. 15 My prayer is not that you take them out of the world but that you protect them from the evil one. 16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of it. 17 Sanctify them by the truth; your word is truth. 18 As you sent me into the world, I have sent them into the world. 19 For them I sanctify myself, that they too may be truly sanctified.
25 “Righteous Father, though the world does not know you, I know you, and they know that you have sent me. 26 I have made you known to them, and will continue to make you known in order that the love you have for me may be in them and that I myself may be in them.” (St. John 17:5, 11-19, 25-26)
It seems that Jesus is both away from the Father and with the Father; glorified on earth and in Heaven; that the world is persecuting His Disciples even before they persecute and kill Him; there’s a mysterious Name of God; though Jesus asks the Father to Sanctify His Disciples, He too Sanctifies Himself so that He can Sanctify His Disciples; Jesus makes the Father Known to the Disciples, yet He will continue to make Him Known to them…

…the thought that comes to mind “my Way is not your way!” :hmmm:

Maran atha!

Angel
 
I was watching the movie “The King of Kings” Easter night and near the end of the movie Jesus tells Mary Magdalene: "Jesus said to her, “do not hold me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to my brethren and say to them, I am ascending to my Father and your Father to my God and your God”.

Can someone explain the meaning of this verse? Didn’t Jesus ascend to the Father after the Resurrection? Why could Mary not touch/hold him? Didn’t Thomas touch him to prove the wounds were real and still there? The footnote in my bible didn’t really help clear up things for me or answer my questions.

I’d appreciate any comments.
Jesus was telling Mary not to cling to him because he is not yet leaving. He tells her to tell the disciples the good news. He predicts his ascension and alludes to the fact that we who are his bretheren are now able to be adopted as God’s children through Christ.

Jesus is the Son of God by nature. Believers are sons of God through grace. And all have the same Father.

“Ver. 17. I will not leave you again; be not in a hurry to touch me; you shall all have this pleasure. I will remain with you some time, before my ascension. Announce my resurrection to my apostles. You shall see me again. This is the interpretation most modern commentators put upon this place. Others suppose, that Magdalene imagined he was risen from the dead to live with men as before, like Lazarus. He addresses these words to her to disabuse her of this notion. (Calmet)”
  • Haydock
 
Or something similar to “Let go of me already, stop hugging me and go get everyone else! We’ve got work to do!”
 
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