John 3:36??

[mainelyned]

Hi!
Got a problem with a verse whose meaning seems to change in translation. Using the RSV the verse is as follows: “He who believes in the son has eternal life, he who does not obey the son shall not see life, but the wrath of God rests upon him.”
Now the Douay-Rheims translates it as follows: “He that believeth in the Son, hath life everlasting; but he that believeth not the Son, shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.”
One indicates that lack of “Obedience” in the Son will result in damnation while the other indicates the lack of “belief” (faith) will result in damnation. How is this translation TRULY interpreted???

 

[threej_lc]

mainelyned:

Hi!
Got a problem with a verse whose meaning seems to change in translation. Using the RSV the verse is as follows: “He who believes in the son has eternal life, he who does not obey the son shall not see life, but the wrath of God rests upon him.”
Now the Douay-Rheims translates it as follows: “He that believeth in the Son, hath life everlasting; but he that believeth not the Son, shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.”
One indicates that lack of “Obedience” in the Son will result in damnation while the other indicates the lack of “belief” (faith) will result in damnation. How is this translation TRULY interpreted???

Faith vs. Works, faith vs. works.

To have faith in Christ is to be obediant to him. To be obediant is to have faith in him, as he commands. The point is moot.

As for which translation is more accurate, I would trust the RSV. Douay_Rheims has some major errors, despite its beauty.

Josh

 

[mainelyned]

threej: I am dealing with a Bapitist here and she says “obey” twists the translation and that it is incorrect. She claims We are saved if we believe in christ (Faith alone) and are condemned if we don’t believe. works are out in her book. Only faith.

 

[LSK]

I think the translation that includes OBEY is a truer one - but I would check with Jimmy Aikin on his website.

 

[Gratias_Grace]

mainelyned:

Hi!
Got a problem with a verse whose meaning seems to change in translation.

It is never wise to try to interpret the meaning of a verse taken out of it’s context.

mainelyned:

One indicates that lack of “Obedience” in the Son will result in damnation while the other indicates the lack of “belief” (faith) will result in damnation. How is this translation TRULY interpreted???

The context is John the baptist telling the people that he is NOT Messiah, but that he is a friend of him and is pleased about that.

John the baptist points to Jesus and says: “35The Father loves the Son and has placed all things in his hands. 36Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever disobeys the Son will not see life, but must endure God’s wrath.” (NRSV)

In the Douay-Rheims Bible it sounds like this: “35 The Father loveth the Son: and he hath given all things into his hand. 36 He that believeth in the Son, hath life everlasting; but he that believeth not the Son, shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.”

The meaning is that everything is in the hand of Jesus Christ. Jesus as the second Adam won the battle against Satan when he was obedient to the Father on the cross.

If we believe in the Son we follow his example and is obedient to the will of the Father (as we pray in the “Our Father” “----- thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven”).

It is impossible to be a child of God without doing the will of God. To believe in Christ is to be obedient.

You see, this is a good example on why Sola Scriptura is not enough. We need the teaching of the Church to understand Scripture. That teaching tells us to be obedient to the will of God. (CCC 615 - 618)

God bless!

 

[BibleReader]

mainelyned:

Hi!
Got a problem with a verse whose meaning seems to change in translation. Using the RSV the verse is as follows: “He who believes in the son has eternal life, he who does not obey the son shall not see life, but the wrath of God rests upon him.”
Now the Douay-Rheims translates it as follows: “He that believeth in the Son, hath life everlasting; but he that believeth not the Son, shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.”
One indicates that lack of “Obedience” in the Son will result in damnation while the other indicates the lack of “belief” (faith) will result in damnation. How is this translation TRULY interpreted???

**Whoever pisteuo the Son has eternal life, but whoever apeitheo the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God remains upon him. **NAB.

Here is the Strong’s analysis of pisteuo…

1) to think to be true, to be persuaded of, to credit, place confidence in

a) of the thing believed

1) to credit, have confidence

b) in a moral or religious reference

1) used in the NT of the conviction and trust to which a man is impelled by a certain inner and higher prerogative and law of soul

2) to trust in Jesus or God as able to aid either in obtaining or in doing something: saving faith

3) mere acknowledgment of some fact or event: intellectual faith

2) to entrust a thing to one, i.e. his fidelity a) to be intrusted with a thing

Now, here is the Strong’s analysis of apeitheo…

1) not to allow one’s self to be persuaded

a) to refuse or withhold belief

b) to refuse belief and obedience 2) not to comply with

The structure of the verse is “antithetical.” In other words, it appears to be structured to be read, “If X, then good stuff happens; if NOT-X, then bad stuff happens.” Also,
the Greek *root * for each term is actually the same, peitho, which means, “to be persuaded.”

Because of that, I actually prefer the Douay-Rheims interp of this verse, which translates each term the same way.