John Paul 2

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Was it infallible teaching or merely the Pope’s private opinion (which is NOT infallible or required belief)? Did the Pope actually say that people ONLY needed to do good to get to heaven? Are you aware of the teaching on Papal Infallibility - that is, the circumstances under which a pronouncement be the Pope becomes required belief?

Are you aware of the constant teaching of the Church on ‘invincible ignorance’ - that is, that those who through no fault of their own do not know of or accept, and are not members of, the Catholic Church, can still be saved? Do you know ‘what was pronounced at the Second Vatican Council’ regarding the matter, which the Pope’s statement repeated? (Hint: it did NOT say that anyone and everyone could be saved, not by a long shot).

What do you think JP2 meant when he said that all were ‘called upon to build the Kingdom of God’? Do you think he meant that they could just stay as they were and go on doing their own thing?
 
LilyM said:
Are you aware of the teaching on Papal Infallibility - that is, the circumstances under which a pronouncement be the Pope becomes required belief?
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Im not, but would like here your summarized explanation.
THE Pope has amended a Vatican pronouncement that the Roman Catholic Church was the “only way to salvation”, saying that Heaven is open to all as long as they are good.
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He said at an audience that “all of the just on Earth, including those who ignore Christ and his Church” were “called upon to build the kingdom of God”. His words repeated what was pronounced at the Second Vatican Council 40 years ago, but were clearly intended to repair harm to religious dialogue caused by a document issued in September.
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The document, signed by Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, the Pope’s chief of doctrine, said that the way of salvation was “only in the unique and universal Catholic Apostolic Church”. The amendment follows criticism of the pronouncement, which called other faiths “gravely deficient” as a means to salvation.
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James 3:9 With it we bless our God and Father, and with it we curse men, who have been made in the similitude of God. 10 Out of the same mouth proceed blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not to be so. 11 Does a spring send forth fresh water and bitter from the same opening? 12 Can a fig tree, my brethren, bear olives, or a grapevine bear figs? Thus no spring yields both salt water and fresh.****
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LionHeart777 said:
anyone have any comment on this old news relaease. To me it is a bit of a stumbling block

telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/italy/1377568/Heaven-open-to-everyone,-says-Pope.html
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Remove “the reporter’s” opinion from the piece and you will find The Pope is precise and correct according to Catholic proclamation!

Neither the Pope, nor the cardinal’s assertion referenced, deviate from what The Church teach and hold to.

The cardinal’s release says other faiths are “grossly deficient.”
Absolutely since they are not the ‘totality’ of The Gospels!

“…no salvation outside The Church…”
Absolutely since The Church reveals, profess and teach WHO the Person of that Salvation IS! (All Christians know Him because of The Catholic Church; not through Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, Star Wars or science classes.)

:cool:
 
“For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men.” (Titus 2:11)

Have “all men” heard of Jesus Christ? And what about those who “ignore Christ” when He says, “If you do not eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood you have no life in you”? Is it impossible for any of these people to be saved? Not for God.
 
(Edited)

I’ll leave that to people who can do it better than me. There’s a good article on the Catholic understanding of Infallibility in general at newadvent.org/cathen/07790a.htm

Suffice it to say that there’s a high threshold that needs to be passed. So much so that in all of Catholic history, most Catholic theologians would say that there are only two instances (the Papal pronunciations on the Immaculate Conception and the Assumption of Mary) where a Pope has in fact spoken infallibly.

So it’s safe to answer my question ‘no, it wasn’t an infallible teaching’.

So please answer my other question - do you think, when John Paul said that all must work together to build the Kingdom of God, that he meant that each could do so simply by continuing as they were - continuing to ignore Christ? Remaining as they were in all their disparate faith traditions? Doing nothing different to what they were doing before he made that comment?

If so, what then in your opinion was the purpose of John Paul’s making the statement that he did? To tell them that they were perfectly fine and did not need to change in any way?
 
thanks for the comments everyone.

Bruce no offence but I don’t see how the passage from James is relevent in that it’s talking about blessings and cursings coming out of the same mouth in context of speach. maybe you could elaborate but I don’t think that Catholics would say that the pope was speaking “Ex Cathedra” here.

I realise too all that the reporter could be taking his quotes out of context.

thanks everyone for participating

Bruce again no offecnce just giving back my $0.02 🙂
 
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