John the Baptist - A liar? Or am I misunderstanding something?

[nickybr38]

*Matthew 3:13-17 (New International Version, ©2010)

The Baptism of Jesus
13 Then Jesus came from Galilee to the Jordan to be baptized by John. 14 But John tried to deter him, saying, “I need to be baptized by you, and do you come to me?”

15 Jesus replied, “Let it be so now; it is proper for us to do this to fulfill all righteousness.” Then John consented.

16 As soon as Jesus was baptized, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting on him. 17 And a voice from heaven said, “This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased.” *

In this verse what strikes me is that BEFORE Jesus is baptised, John lays eyes on him and KNOWS he is special. “I need to be baptized by YOU and do you come to me?” speaks of a man who knows EXACTLY who and what Jesus is… to me anyway.

Yet in John 1:29-32 John says:

*John Testifies About Jesus

29 The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world! 30 This is the one I meant when I said, ‘A man who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.’ 31 I myself did not know him, but the reason I came baptizing with water was that he might be revealed to Israel.”

32 Then John gave this testimony: “I saw the Spirit come down from heaven as a dove and remain on him. 33 And I myself did not know him, but the one who sent me to baptize with water told me, ‘The man on whom you see the Spirit come down and remain is the one who will baptize with the Holy Spirit.’ 34 I have seen and I testify that this is God’s Chosen One.”[f] *

“I myself did not know him…” He says the one who sent him told him how to recognize the Messiah AFTER he was baptized, yet John laid eyes on Jesus and proclaimed; “I should be baptized by YOU…”

So… uh, what’s going on here? I really don’t get it. Is he lying? Is he exaggerating? Is he referring to know in a different way? Is John just a really bad writer?

Any thoughts?

 

[puzzleannie]

I don’t see your issue. John himself tells what happened. He knew as he must have from an early age, from the prophecy received by his father Zachary that he would be the last prophet to herald the Messaiah, but until the Holy Spirit revealed it to him (at an unspecified time before the Baptism of the Lord) he did not know precisely who that would be. The Holy Spirit gave him the knowledge he would need to recognize the Lord, the scene played out as the Holy Spirit said, and John testified to this to his disciples.

 

[PLeeD]

“I myself did not know him…” He says the one who sent him told him how to recognize the Messiah AFTER he was baptized, yet John laid eyes on Jesus and proclaimed; “I should be baptized by YOU…”

I would assume that at the point John said “I should be baptized by YOU…”, he already knew that Jesus was special. Elizabeth and Mary knew it while Jesus and John were still in the womb. But John hadn’t seen the sign yet, so he didn’t know for sure.

That changed after seeing the sspirit descend, and after that no doubt was left. John knew for sure.

 

[FrankieIV]

One thing that is important to understand is that while God is the inspired author of the Bible, the actual writers were human . The Gospel has four accepted accounts . Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John of course are the accepted accounts . God inspired each of them to write these accounts . We remember in Luke 1 When John in Elizabeth’s Womb leaped at the sound of Mary’s voice .He knew even then that What was in Mary’s womb was something special . For any questions about the catholic faith I have a good blog to help you with . My blog covers the subjects of the following: Mary mother of God,Saint intercession,Purgatory/prayers for the dead ,Pope Peter /apostolic succession, The deuterocanonical books (the 7 books protestants are missing) and much more my blog is www.defendingthefaith-frankie.blogspot.com

 

[Hastrman]

Anyone else notice the very Jewish way John says this? “I should be baptized by you, and you come to me?”

Read it with a Yiddish accent. That particular kind of incredulous rhetorical question is a part of Jewish culture, I think.

Jesus does it too, at Gethsemane: “You couldn’t even stay awake an hour?!”

 

[nickybr38]

Hastrman - That’s how I’ve always read it, and it always makes me smile.

As to the others:

My issue is that to say ‘I did not know him until the sign was given’ and yet to also say; YOU should baptise me, seems quite contradictory to me! Perhaps I’m just reading it wrong, but he’s basically saying I didn’t know Jesus was THE chosen one and YET I recognized him from the WOMB as the chosen one before the true sign was given?

How does that make sense? Agh! Scripture! It gives me a headache! Haha.

 

[nickybr38]

I would assume that at the point John said “I should be baptized by YOU…”, he already knew that Jesus was special. Elizabeth and Mary knew it while Jesus and John were still in the womb. But John hadn’t seen the sign yet, so he didn’t know for sure.

That changed after seeing the s[spirit descend, and after that no doubt was left. John knew for sure.

And yet later he sent his disciples to ask Jesus YET AGAIN ‘Are YOU the one…?’. Ah, the politics of the time… Haha.
[/quote]

 

[pcromwell]

Hi,

I am an amatuer at this, but I have learned when studying or reading the Bible, something could be obvious when you look at the statements from different points of view.

Now, could it be that Jesus is the one who sent John the Babtist? Could He have told John to go and babtize with water and when you see "a dove descend on someone, this person will be the Messiah? John, after witnessing this, could of thought “I didn’t know it was you.” and when John said “I, myself, didn’t know Him (The Messiah)”, he was telling the truth.

I could be way off.

 

[Pete_Holter]

Does this answer your question?

“He who speaketh the truth speaketh of God. John is true, Christ is the Truth; John is true, but every true man is true from the Truth. If, then, John is true, and a man cannot be true except from the Truth, from whom was he true, unless from Him who said, ‘I am the truth’? The Truth, then, could not speak contrary to the true man, or the true man contrary to the Truth. The Truth sent the true man, and he was true because sent by the Truth” (St. Augustine, Tractate 5).

I just had to post that cause all those ‘trues’ and ‘truths’ made me laugh the first time I read it.

Anyway, that homily has Augustine’s take on this if you’d like to read it.

Your brother in the LORD,
Pete

 

[Vico]

There was an earlier meeting of Our Lord and John the Baptist.

Luke 1:39-43
39 And Mary rising up in those days, went into the hill country with haste into a city of Juda.
40 And she entered into the house of Zachary, and saluted Elizabeth.
41 And it came to pass, that when Elizabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the infant leaped in her womb. And Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost:
42 And she cried out with a loud voice, and said: Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb.
43 And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?

 

[adrift]

This is also discussed here

Did John the Baptist know Jesus

this is what I posted there

I looked up the Greek word used for to know

Quote:
1492 eido {i’-do} or oida {oy’-da} a root word; TDNT - 5:116, 673; v 1) to see 1a) to perceive with the eyes 1b) to perceive by any of the senses 1c) to perceive, notice, discern, discover 1d) to see 1d1) i.e. to turn the eyes, the mind, the attention to anything 1d2) to pay attention, observe 1d3) to see about something 1d31) i.e. to ascertain what must be done about it 1d4) to inspect, examine 1d5) to look at, behold 1e) to experience any state or condition 1f) to see i.e. have an interview with, to visit 2) to know 2a) to know of anything 2b) to know, i.e. get knowledge of, understand, perceive 2b1) of any fact 2b2) the force and meaning of something which has definite meaning 2b3) to know how, to be skilled in 2c) to have regard for one, cherish, pay attention to (1Th. 5:12) For Synonyms see entry 5825

It means that John did not see Jesus before he baptized Him. Which makes the following scripture make more sense.

Quote:
And I have seen, and have borne witness that this is the Son of God.

What John is saying is not contradictory from Luke. John did not see Jesus than only heard Him.

John’s purpose was to testify about Jesus. He did so in the womb and than latter when he meets Jesus.

 

[promethius]

This is also discussed here

Did John the Baptist know Jesus

this is what I posted there

We covered something similar in mass this morning. John the Baptist lived roughly 80 miles from the Holy Family, and before his ministry he had been out fasting in the desert for quite some time. It is possible that John and Jesus had not seen each other since their time in the womb and that John is saying that he had no knowledge of specifically what the Christ looked like, but TA DA! he recognized Christ immediately, just as he did when Christ and he were in the womb and then this was CONFIRMED when the Spirit came down from the sky to light upon Christ and remain.

 

[bogeydogg]

And yet later he sent his disciples to ask Jesus YET AGAIN ‘Are YOU the one…?’. Ah, the politics of the time… Haha.

It is important to distinguish the cry of John in prison to John in the Jordan. John, even though he was a prophet, misunderstood the nature of Jesus’ ministry just as the apostles did. They were all awaiting a Messiah who overthrow the Romans and could not understand why Jesus was not getting on with it. Furthermore here is John in jail waiting to be executed and he is saying “Are you the Messiah or not… get on with it.” John is telling Jesus that Jesus is not fulfilling the role of Messiah in the way he expected, namely that Herod would be judged, the Romans overthrown and the Kingdom come down immediately.

I think this is most telling in Jesus’ reply, "22 And he answered them, “Go and tell John what you have seen and heard: the blind receive their sight, the lame walk, lepers are cleansed, and the deaf hear, the dead are raised up, the poor have good news preached to them. 23 And blessed is the one who is not offended by me.” Jesus reminds John of prophesy about Messiah, to affirm that John’s unwaivering faith is not displaced, and then tells John to be ashamed that is to not think God has failed him because he is in prison. In saying this Jesus affirms clearly that God is not going to free John but the Kingdom will come in a way John had not expected and therefore do not be ashamed.

It is a tender and beautiful answer from the Lord to his servant who has not wavered in his faith but grown impatient with him. It is also telling that we hear nothing else from John except that he was killed and Jesus called him the greatest among the prophets. But it is an error to phrase John’s question as a loss of faith because Jesus specifically admonishes him to not be ashamed.

God Bless