John The Baptist

[vincedebo]

Did John know Jesus before he baptised Him and did John know Jesus was the Messiah when he baptised him. I seem to find a contradiction in Scripture.

Vince

 

[passus]

Yes, it would seem that even in the womb, St. John the Baptist knew our Lord.
And when Elizabeth heard the greeting of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit and she exclaimed with a loud cry, “Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb! And why is this granted me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me? For behold, when the voice of your greeting came to my ears, the babe in my womb leaped for joy” (Luke 1:41-44).
What is the contradiction you’re finding and what are the exact passages? I couldn’t find anything in any of the synoptic Gospel accounts of Jesus’s Baptism that suggests that St. John either did or did not know Jesus.

 

[Dolphincrc]

Did John know Jesus before he baptised Him and did John know Jesus was the Messiah when he baptised him. I seem to find a contradiction in Scripture.

1. John says he didnt know him, but it was revealed to him how he would recognize him:

John saw Jesus coming to him and said, “Behold the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world. he is the one of whom I said ‘A man is coming after me who ranks ahead of me because he existed before.’… I did not know him but the one who sent me to baptize with water told me 'On whomever you see the Spirit come down and remain, he is the one who will baptizewith the holy Spirit.” (John 1:29-34)

1. Sometime later during Jesus’ ministry. John sends a couple of messengers to ask Jesus “Are you the one who is to come or should we look for another?” This could be doubt on his part, maybe he thought Messiah should be something else, who knows. But Jesus answers in the affirmative by telling them to tell John of all the works he was doing (Luke 7:18-23)

So it is not really a contradiction. First he recognizes him because it was revealed to him, and later he has some doubts and wants to make sure he really is the Messiah.

 

[Evan]

1. Sometime later during Jesus’ ministry. John sends a couple of messengers to ask Jesus “Are you the one who is to come or should we look for another?” This could be doubt on his part, maybe he thought Messiah should be something else, who knows. But Jesus answers in the affirmative by telling them to tell John of all the works he was doing (Luke 7:18-23)

Our priest spoke of this at the homily this Sunday. His hypothesis (or the one he learned) was that John’s followers were asking about him while John languished in prison, so John sent them to ask these questions. When Jews of the time taught, they often used parables… they did not reveal the answers but pointed you in the way to find the answer on your own. Similarly Sacrates was famous for this same technique.

Thus John may have believed but his followers were unsure so he released them to discover, on their own, who is the messiah of God.

 

[vincedebo]

Thanks for helpful replies. Ok, why did Jesus, who is sinless go to the Jordan to have John baptize him and if John knew at that point Jesus was the Savior, why did John Baptize Him. Jesus had no need for Baptism.

 

[thistle]

Thanks for helpful replies. Ok, why did Jesus, who is sinless go to the Jordan to have John baptize him and if John knew at that point Jesus was the Savior, why did John Baptize Him. Jesus had no need for Baptism.

CCC 535 Jesus’ public life begins with his baptism by John in the Jordan. John preaches “a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins”. A crowd of sinners - tax collectors and soldiers, Pharisees and Sadducees, and prostitutes- come to be baptized by him. “Then Jesus appears.” The Baptist hesitates, but Jesus insists and receives baptism. Then the Holy Spirit, in the form of a dove, comes upon Jesus and a voice from heaven proclaims, “This is my beloved Son.” This is the manifestation (“Epiphany”) of Jesus as Messiah of Israel and Son of God.

CCC 536 The baptism of Jesus is on his part the acceptance and inauguration of his mission as God’s suffering Servant. He allows himself to be numbered among sinners; he is already “the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world”. Already he is anticipating the “baptism” of his bloody death. Already he is coming to “fulfill all righteousness”, that is, he is submitting himself entirely to his Father’s will: out of love he consents to this baptism of death for the remission of our sins. The Father’s voice responds to the Son’s acceptance, proclaiming his entire delight in his Son. The Spirit whom Jesus possessed in fullness from his conception comes to “rest on him”. Jesus will be the source of the Spirit for all mankind. At his baptism “the heavens were opened” - the heavens that Adam’s sin had closed - and the waters were sanctified by the descent of Jesus and the Spirit, a prelude to the new creation.

CCC 537 Through Baptism the Christian is sacramentally assimilated to Jesus, who in his own baptism anticipates his death and resurrection. The Christian must enter into this mystery of humble self-abasement and repentance, go down into the water with Jesus in order to rise with him, be reborn of water and the Spirit so as to become the Father’s beloved son in the Son and "walk in newness of life.

CCC 1223 All the Old Covenant prefigurations find their fulfillment in Christ Jesus. He begins his public life after having himself baptized by St. John the Baptist in the Jordan. After his resurrection Christ gives this mission to his apostles: “Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you.”

CCC 1224 Our Lord voluntarily submitted himself to the baptism of St. John, intended for sinners, in order to “fulfill all righteousness.” Jesus’ gesture is a manifestation of his self-emptying.The Spirit who had hovered over the waters of the first creation descended then on the Christ as a prelude of the new creation, and the Father revealed Jesus as his “beloved Son.”

CCC 1225 In his Passover Christ opened to all men the fountain of Baptism. He had already spoken of his Passion, which he was about to suffer in Jerusalem, as a “Baptism” with which he had to be baptized. The blood and water that flowed from the pierced side of the crucified Jesus are types of Baptism and the Eucharist, the sacraments of new life. From then on, it is possible “to be born of water and the Spirit” in order to enter the Kingdom of God.

 

[vincedebo]

Excellent! Thank You!

Vince