Jonn 1:16 - "Grace Upon Grace"

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Also translated “grace in place of grace”, and “grace for grace”

I’m covering this in my bible study tonight and I was interested in people’s thoughts. For my study I review several resources: Steve Ray’s book on John 1, Barclay, Aquinas’ golden chain, and Aquinas’ commentary.

I see several possibilities are presented:
  1. Old testament law and new testament salvation. This seems to be a reasonable predeccesor for John 1:18.
  2. An abundance of graces, depending upon the situation
  3. The first grace is justifying grace, the second is eternal life
  4. Grace and wisdom
This is a nice passage to point out a couple of things - where to find/how to use writings of the early fathers, and also to point out that on certain subjects doctors of the church disagree on the details.

Anyhow, just kind of curious how some of you see it.
 
Here is a passage from the Haydock Bible Commentary on John 1:16

Ver. 16. And of his fulness we all have received; not only Jews, but also all nations. — And grace for grace.[5] It may perhaps be translated grace upon grace, as Mr. Blackwall observes, and brings a parallel example in Greek out of Theognis, p. 164. It implies abundance of graces, and greater graces under the new law of Christ than in the time of the law of Moses; which exposition is confirmed by the following verse. (Witham) — Before the coming of the Messias all men had the light of reason. The Greeks had their philosophy, the Jews the law and prophets. All this was a grace and favour bestowed by God, the author of all good. But since the word was made flesh, God has made a new distribution of graces. He has given the light of faith, and caused the gospel of salvation to be announced to all men; he has invited all nations to the faith and knowledge of the truth. Thus he has given us one grace for another; but the second is infinitely greater, more excellent, and more abundant than the first. The following verse seems to insinuate, that the evangelist means the law by the first grace, and the gospel by the second. Compare likewise Romans i. 17. The Jews were conducted by faith to faith; by faith in God and the law of Moses, to the faith of the gospel, announced by Christ. (Calmet)

As you pointed out you wanted to another passage that follows same suite, I have highlighted Romans 1:17 in the passage from John 1:16 from the Haydock Bible Commentary

Ver. 17. For the justice of God. He does not here mean that justice, by which God is just in himself, but that justice, or sanctification, which he communicates to men, and by which they are justified and sanctified. — From faith to faith. That is, by faith, and an increase in faith, inasmuch as, by increasing in faith, we advance in virtues; as it is written, (Habacuc ii. 4.) the just man liveth by faith; including the love of God, hope, and other virtues. (Witham)

Ver. 4. Unbelieving. Protestants, “lifted up.” (Haydock) — The king’s vain projects shall fail. Roman Septuagint, “If he withdraw himself, my soul shall not have pleasure in him. But my just man shall live by my faith.” Others read with St. Paul, “my just man shall live by faith,” Hebrews x. 38. (Calmet) — The source of content arises from faith, (without which this life would be a sort of death, as the apostle and St. Augustine, Trinity xiv. 12., &c., observe) because it is the beginning of life by grace, which the works of the law could not otherwise confer, Galatians iii. (Worthington) — The Hebrew will admit the sense of the Septuagint and we ought rather to shew this in passages which the authors of the New Testament quote, than to excuse them. Here their version seems preferable to that given by moderns, ecce elata est, non recta anima ejus in eo, the drift of which who can guess? Beza has acted unfairly, “at si quis se subduxerit non est gratum animo meo;” whereas the text speaks of the “just man,” as Theophylactus observes. “Hence all who know his theological opinions, may see how suspicious his translation must be accounted.” (Pearson, pref. Sept.) (Haydock)

Ver. 2. Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law? As if he said, you esteem it a great favour to have received those spiritual gifts of working miracles, &c. When you were made Christians, had you these favours by the works of the law, or was it not by the hearing of faith, and by the faith of Christ, that you had such extraordinary graces? and when you have begun thus happily by the spirit of Christ and his spiritual gifts, are you for finishing and thinking to make yourselves more perfect by the exterior works of the law, the circumcision of the flesh, and such like ceremonies? (Witham)

These verses from the Haydock seem self explainatory. Receiving fullness and spiritual gifts by faith and grace through the Lord by following his precepts. That is what I got out these passages
 
These verses from the Haydock seem self explainatory. Receiving fullness and spiritual gifts by faith and grace through the Lord by following his precepts. That is what I got out these passages
I’m with you here. One thing I was planning to talk about is what does “fullness” mean. We are shown various glimpses of that by Paul throughout his letters. Here are a couple:
Ephesians 3:14-19
14 For this reason I kneel before the Father,
15 from whom every family in heaven and on earth is named,
16 that he may grant you in accord with the riches of his glory to be strengthened with power through his Spirit in the inner self,
17 and that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith; that you, rooted and grounded in love,
18 may have strength to comprehend with all the holy ones what is the breadth and length and height and depth,
19 and to know the love of Christ that surpasses knowledge, so that you may be filled with all the fullness of God.
That passage packs a lot of punch and is IMO key to understanding what fullness is and what it truly means to live life in the spirit.
 
Here is a quote from the Catechism.
CCC 504 Jesus is conceived by the Holy Spirit in the Virgin Mary’s womb because he is the New Adam, who inaugurates the new creation: “The first man was from the earth, a man of dust; the second man is from heaven.” From his conception, Christ’s humanity is filled with the Holy Spirit, for God “gives him the Spirit without measure.” From “his fullness” as the head of redeemed humanity “we have all received, grace upon grace.”
 
Here is a quote from the Catechism.
Thanks - I’d read that last night and it doesn’t quite provide what I’m looking for, in terms of how to articulate the idea to others.

One thing that in the past I’ve gotten to in reading something like that is – "this grace upon grace sounds good, how do I get it? Because I don’t feel it happening right now. "

I know that lots and lots of people feel that way, and one of my personal callings is helping people understand how they can get there. Getting mystical here but I am crystal clear that this is what God wants me to do. To me, that is discipleship in a nutshell – learn something, then share it.

IMO - in this case, the idea of “fullness” is difficult to comprehend if you haven’t experienced it. It leads into a discussion of what it truly means to believe in and remain in Christ (eg, John 3, 8, and 15), how that process leads to life in the spirit, and the type of experiences I’ve listed above from Ephesians 3.
 
I’m with you here. One thing I was planning to talk about is what does “fullness” mean. We are shown various glimpses of that by Paul throughout his letters. Here are a couple:

Ephesians 3:14-19
14 For this reason I kneel before the Father,
15 from whom every family in heaven and on earth is named,
16 that he may grant you in accord with the riches of his glory to be strengthened with power through his Spirit in the inner self,
17 and that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith; that you, rooted and grounded in love,
18 may have strength to comprehend with all the holy ones what is the breadth and length and height and depth,
19 and to know the love of Christ that surpasses knowledge, so that you may be filled with all the fullness of God

That passage packs a lot of punch and is IMO key to understanding what fullness is and what it truly means to live life in the spirit.
That is a pretty powerful passage. You are heading in a good direction. Good luck getting this message out to your group
 
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