Judas and Free Choice

[AndyF]

How would it have affected the redemption story if Judas had decided he was not fit to handle the purse, or, saw the error of his ways and persued another occupation prior to his betrayal?

 Considerations:

  Free will.
  Destiny.
  Prophecy.
  Probability 

  Andy

 

[sweetchuck]

Judas had that choice. But he didn’t take it. I don’t think you can reason that Jesus wouldn’t have ended up giving his life in the same way. But Jesus knew what Judas would do, and he didn’t try to talk him out of it. Why? Because God won’t force someone into loving Him. That has to be a free choice. That has to be the ultimate end of free will: Choosing to love God. God desires ALL his creations to rejoice with him throughout all eternity, and he creates no one to suffer eternally, but if that’s what a person or angel wants to do with eternity, not to serve the One True God, that same One True God will not stop them. And if Judas couldn’t figure that out after all the time he spent with Jesus hearing the words of truth, he had already made his choice.

 

[sweetchuck]

AndyF:

Free will.

The precious gift by which we choose to love God. God will have no slaves in heaven. Everyone who is there will be there because they choose to worship God.

AndyF:

Destiny.

God destines all to rejoice with him forever. We are given this great capacity to do good in the world, but if we choose not to, we alter our destiny and work against God’s divine will.

AndyF:

Prophecy.

Prophecy and free will are mutually exclusive. I.E.: Prophecy does not undermine Judas’ free will. Prophecy does not place a hold on Judas actions, rather, Judas’ actions are preseen through prophecy, not predetermined. Perhaps St. Augustine’s explanation of the nature of time in “Confessions” will help you understand this idea.

AndyF:

Probability

Not sure what you mean here. It was 100 percent probable that Jesus would give his life for us, because we had incurred a debt we could not pay, and all are worthy of damnation. That’s why Jesus came: To shower the world with God’s Divine Mercy.

 

[AndyF]

sweetchuck:

Prophecy and free will are mutually exclusive. I.E.: Prophecy does not undermine Judas’ free will. Prophecy does not place a hold on Judas actions, rather, Judas’ actions are preseen through prophecy, not predetermined.

Hi!

All evidence points to pre-determination a Judas character will be required. As it applies to Judas’s prophecy, it is not for-knowledge of a random future event, it is also what God desires to happen.

With the latter in mind, the story becomes a metaphoric play act where everyone must play their part. For God this MUST occur, therefore someone, anyone, must be destined to play Judas.

God had some choices as well, if He does wish randomness, he must also exclude Himself from influencing the selective process, and that includes knowing who to choose as a potential Judas. Jesus would then choose a Judas out pure randomness, a flip of a coin, with odds of trillions to one that he would select the correct person. He would have to exclude Himself from knowing what Judas would pick as a free will choice.

It also comes into question the goodness of using someone for a specific purpose knowing he will do a mis-deed. For instance if I know a person will set a building aflame, it would be immoral for me to use this arsonist for my pre-intent of selling the scrap copper.

On who will play the part of betrayer, “A JUDAS” is required, and THIS particular Judas is the object of our scorn, and it will be that A JUDAS will always be offered up for scorning whether we wanted to or not. The desire for God to have this play out will always assure man that there would be a Judas in the long line of potential Judases at rehersal. If this one is not picked, the next comes up to take his place, because God’s will be done.

Andy