Judgement: Never say bad, but okay to say good

  • Thread starter Thread starter Smber2c
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
S

Smber2c

Guest
My girlfriend is living with her sister this summer and having a rough time of it. They haven’t lived together for the last 2 years, since they attend different colleges, and my GF kept getting deeper and deeper in her faith while her sister did the opposite.

Now in living together, her sister feels judged when my GF asks her to not curse, have guys stay over night, and other Christian tenets.

Her sister claims she is fiercly opposed to judging people…but I recently asked myself, isn’t she making a judgement too, by saying all these people and all these actions are good? How can ‘bad’ be judgement, but ‘good’ not judgement?

There seems to be a very strong idea that it is okay to judge people if you judge their actions charitable or their character as wholesome. But, to suggest they are bad or their actions were harmful is taking powers that we don’t have. 🤷

It actually made me think of dead people. Since the real judgement that I think we are called to avoid is judging the state and worth of other’s souls. Then why in a Eulogy is it okay to say, “Martha is now in heaven with God.”; when we really have no clear knowledge. But it would be very widely and harshly condemed for one to say, “Martha is now in Hell.” during a Eulogy.

Is the second more judging than the first? Both assume that we know the soul of another person, which is bunk. So why are we okay with positive judgements and not negative?
 
Bad judgment is bad when it makes somebody feel bad about themselves or their lifestyle. :tsktsk: Other that all else is fair game.
Or at least that’s what the world wants to tell you. :rolleyes: We often accept this view because it makes us feel not so bad about ourselves (or our beloved aunt Martha).
I agree that although we should have a positive view on people, we shouldn’t necessary accept that all is good. However, the danger in negative judgment is that we tend to present others worse than ourselves and can become proud.
Nevertheless, it is our right and obligation to point it out to others when some of their ways are wrong and sinful (doing it in a proper way, of course).
 
GF is not judging people, she is asking the person she lives with to respect her, to respect her values, and to allow her to conduct her life at home as she wishes. If sister objects, sister is making a judgement.

Judging others comes when we make a statement about their spiritual condition, the state of their soul, which only the priest can do in confession. Telling others what behavior we expect inside our own home is not judging, nor is telling someone their behavior is not acceptable. I have a perfect right in my own home to set standards under which I will live.

I predict this living arrangement will not last long, and I hope the fallout is not to bad when it ends.
 
If your GF’s sister is so opposed to “judging” (read: telling someone that that their behavior is unaccaptable/anti-social/dangerous) then how can she support any laws? Does she walk into the local Walmart and steal what she wants? Does she burn down the movie theatre that took her money and showed her a piece of junk? Does she push little kids down and steal their lunch money? Would she “pass judgement” on those who did?

Why then is it acceptable for local, state, and federal governments to make “judgements” on people’s behavior, but not acceptable for a member of a family unit (in this case, your GF) to do the same? After all, isn’t the family the building block of society and all its laws?

So as for your question, I don’t think that speculation on Martha’s soul’s current location is something that we can honestly do. Yes, most people will say Martha’s in Heaven, since most of us don’t want to deal with a hysterical family member should we suggest otherwise. We can observe her actions in light of God’s laws, but we can never assume to know the extent of God’s mercy.

So just like we can know man’s laws, and determine if someone’s actions are acceptable or unacceptable based on that, so we can know God’s laws, and help our brothers and sisters on their pilgrimage on Earth.
 
Smber2c said:
It actually made me think of dead people. Since the real judgment that I think we are called to avoid is judging the state and worth of other’s souls. Then why in a Eulogy is it okay to say, “Martha is now in heaven with God.”; when we really have no clear knowledge. But it would be very widely and harshly condemned for one to say, “Martha is now in Hell.” during a Eulogy.

Is the second more judging than the first? Both assume that we know the soul of another person, which is bunk. So why are we okay with positive judgments and not negative?
Click to expand...
Okay, so you won’t be giving the Eulogy at my funeral. 🙂

When we say someone is in Heaven, especially at a funeral, we’re simply expressing a hope. Obviously we don’t know for sure or Martha would be canonized a Saint. Expressing that hope seems more compassionate then saying “We don’t know where ole Martha is now. She could be in Heaven, but maybe she’s in Hell. Either way, I know we’ll all miss her apple pie.”

So do you posit we live in a morally sterile environment where one dare not speak the truth for fear of offending the individual that lives a lie? My Babyboom generation tried the “You’re okay, I’m okay” mindset. It didn’t work and caused a tremendous amount of harm to the culture which our kids and grandkids now have to deal with.
 
Is it bad judgement to allow her sister to put her very life in danger (not to mention her soul) by having random guys stay the night? Think STD’s or worse.

It also puts your GF life in danger (and I hope her door locks work on her room) and isn’t she paying some of the cost of living together? Isn’t it common courtesy not to put your own sister’s life in danger by your own poor decisions? Is that judging or just common sense?

They need to straighten it out and come to an agreement on that arrangement for their own saftety. If not, move out, don’t look back and pray for her sister’s common sense to return.

I’m not judging, I’m caring for both GF and sister’s safety.
 
andzy said:
Bad judgment is bad when it makes somebody feel bad about themselves or their lifestyle. :tsktsk: Other that all else is fair game.
Or at least that’s what the world wants to tell you. :rolleyes: We often accept this view because it makes us feel not so bad about ourselves (or our beloved aunt Martha).

I agree that although we should have a positive view on people, we shouldn’t necessary accept that all is good. However, the danger in negative judgment is that we tend to present others worse than ourselves and can become proud.

** Nevertheless, it is our right and obligation to point it out to others when some of their ways are wrong and sinful (doing it in a proper way, of course).**
Click to expand...
You contradict yourself here. While we must “speak the truth with charity”, we must realize that some people will be annoyed by it.

Telling an active fornicator that what they are doing is not good, may not make the person feel very good about their lifestyle. Ultimately, it may also plant the seed that everntually leads that person to reject that, and other sins, and reconcile themselves to God.

Speak the truth. Be charitable, but for the sake of their soul, and your own, you must tell people.

That is not being judgemental.

You should also look at this thread. forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=160795
 
rpp said:
You contradict yourself here. While we must “speak the truth with charity”, we must realize that some people will be annoyed by it.
Click to expand...
In Andzy’s post I’m pretty sure he was presenting the first line as “the worlds opinion” then knocked it down through moral logic.

I agree with your thoughts though, and I think that Andyz does too. 👍
 
ltbpoe43 said:
It also puts your GF life in danger (and I hope her door locks work on her room) and isn’t she paying some of the cost of living together? Isn’t it common courtesy not to put your own sister’s life in danger by your own poor decisions? Is that judging or just common sense?
Click to expand...
I just thought I’d clarify, my saying “boys staying the night” actually refers to 1 boy. He’s a long time boy friend that I certainly don’t think is a threat to my GF’s safety.

Still, I know it is not a very good situation. Negotiations are on going. Now they’ve agreed he won’t sleep over at their place, but she’s still going to sleep at his place when she wants. 😦

On a much brighter note: my GF’s sister is very much into the working out, so she’ll be getting to show my GF some of her exercise routines and my GF will bring her sister to adoration and mass once or twice a week. 😃

Hopefully this will have a positive effect.
 
StCsDavid said:
Okay, so you won’t be giving the Eulogy at my funeral. 🙂
Click to expand...
😃 That’s the rub, right? I know that I’m not supposed to presume to know that one is in heaven, but when what about when my own momma dies right?..I think the best is maybe to just not speculate.

I’ve been to 2 protestant funerals, and both times the minister assured all in attendance that the deceased was in Heaven. That sound all good and well, but what about when the mister at a funeral of one who wasn’t “saved”.

In college our campus minister was a convert from the Baptist Church. The turning point was when she attended a funeral for a man who’s wife and 4 sons attended their church. The man did not practice any faith, so at the funeral the minister said something to the effect of, “Let us all learn from this tragedy. That these boys not go to hell like their father.”

I think we all see why she started second guessing her Baptist faith at that point.
 
Smber2c said:
In Andzy’s post I’m pretty sure he was presenting the first line as “the worlds opinion” then knocked it down through moral logic.
I agree with your thoughts though, and I think that Andyz does too. 👍
Click to expand...
Exactly! 👍
 
Not exactly on topic, but . . . did they get an apartment together or did your GF move in w/ her sister who already had an apartment?

If they moved in together (at the same time), your GF has every right to ask her sister to refrain from such activities. They probably should have discussed these things before signing a lease.

If your GF moved in w/ a sister who already had an apartment, I don’t see how she can expect her sister to change her behavior. Her sister shouldn’t be doing those things, but if your GF knew and moved in anyway expecting her sister to change, she had unrealistic expectations. —KCT
 
Eulogies that canonize the deceased are a diabolical disservice to the departed. It deprives them of intercessions that may assist them in purgatory. If everyone here thinks they have “made it”, then there is no motivation to offer prayers and supplications for the soul. Though it is done to comfort mourning widows and friends, it is pure evil, IMHO. Besides, as the OP points out, you don’t know where they are - that’s God’s job to judge.

Good points made in the OP 👍
 
KCT said:
Not exactly on topic, but . . . did they get an apartment together or did your GF move in w/ her sister who already had an apartment?

If they moved in together (at the same time), your GF has every right to ask her sister to refrain from such activities. They probably should have discussed these things before signing a lease.

If your GF moved in w/ a sister who already had an apartment, I don’t see how she can expect her sister to change her behavior. Her sister shouldn’t be doing those things, but if your GF knew and moved in anyway expecting her sister to change, she had unrealistic expectations. —KCT
Click to expand...
Actually, neither is the case. Her sister moved in with her. My GF is 22 and her little sister who is 20 decided to take a summer in her sister’s town. Which reveals another sort of trouble is that her sister is under age and likes to drink. 🤷 Family right?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top