Judging Others?

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Jesus instructed us to correct others when they have errored (MATTHEW 18:15-17). He also said that those of us without sin should cast the first stone.

One passage seems to indicate that we are sinners and have no right to judge others and should leave that up to God (judge not and yea shall not be judged) while another passage seems to tell us to judge others (in order to correct someone who has errored, a number of judgements need to be made).

How do we reconcile these two scripture points which seem to be telling us opposite things?
 
He also said that those of us without sin should cast the first stone
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Since none of us are without sin no one should cast the first stone. Yet we still do on occasion. 😉
 
But how do we reconcile that with His commandment (MATTHEW 18:15-17) to correct others when we see them doing something wrong?

They seem to conflict with one another :confused:
 
There is no conflict here. Correcting others is a moral obligation, and is not judging. Or more precisely, it IS judging, but the sin, not the sinner. Admonishing the sinner is a spiritual act of mercy.

Take: your friend is commiting adultery. If you say,

“Friend, I must tell you that what you are doing is sinful, and since you’re a Christian, you must know that it is against Jesus’ teachings. I must beg you to stop and repent.”

That is not judging (in the sense we’re talking about) but it is indeed correcting. However if you go.

“You rotten so-and-so! You call yourself a Christian and yet you engage in such despicable actions. You’re gonna burn in hell for this!” and then go off a report him to the parish council for widespread disgrace, then that IS casting the first stone, and is the judging the Lord warns us about.

The judging here is not identifying and correcting sinful behavior. It is taking into one’s hands condemnation only God has the right to administer.
 
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porthos11:
There is no conflict here. Correcting others is a moral obligation, and is not judging. Or more precisely, it IS judging, but the sin, not the sinner. Admonishing the sinner is a spiritual act of mercy.

Take: your friend is commiting adultery. If you say,

“Friend, I must tell you that what you are doing is sinful, and since you’re a Christian, you must know that it is against Jesus’ teachings. I must beg you to stop and repent.”

That is not judging (in the sense we’re talking about) but it is indeed correcting. However if you go.

“You rotten so-and-so! You call yourself a Christian and yet you engage in such despicable actions. You’re gonna burn in hell for this!” and then go off a report him to the parish council for widespread disgrace, then that IS casting the first stone, and is the judging the Lord warns us about.

The judging here is not identifying and correcting sinful behavior. It is taking into one’s hands condemnation only God has the right to administer.
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A wonderful explanation!! 🙂
 
Condemning the sin by other sinners is not the problem, but rather it is the harsh condemnation of the sinner by other sinners. The point of correcting the sinner, is not to destroy him, but to lead him to repentance.

Gerry 🙂
 
Admonishing the sinner (privately as we are instructed to do first, and then with the authority of the Church) is a far cry from stoning someone to death for a transgression. There is no conflict between the two passages. Jesus himself admonished the woman and told her to sin no more, but prevented the crowd from inflicting a disproporational punishment by forcing them to confront their own sinfulness, and examine their own liability for judgement.
 
With all of this being said, we must not forget that we too must examine ourselves for sin, etc before approaching another. When I lust for someone in my mind and then take my brother aside for adultery to correct him…well, I am doing the same thing in God’s eyes. We must beware. I must correct myself before approaching the sinner (since the sin is the same…capiche???)

Blessings,
Shoshana
 
Peace be with you all,

What does this mean to you?

Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing. And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing. Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up, Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil; Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth; Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things. Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. - 1 Corinthians 13:1-8 (KJVA)

Peace, Love and Blessings,
 
We reconcile with the old adage, “Context, context, context”.

Matthew 18 starts with Jesus telling us that we must be like little children to enter the Kingdom. It continues with Jesus telling us that it is not God’s will that even one should be lost–and that, if our brother sins against us, we must try to reconcile. St. Peter asks, “How often? Seven times?” and Jesus tells us, “I say, Seventy times seven”. Jesus is speaking with His disciples, not with the hoi polloi.

John 8 has, not the disciples, but the Scribes and Pharisees coming in, “Aha, Gotcha! We have a woman caught in adultery and Moses says to stone her, what do you say?” And Jesus, at first, doesn’t even speak, but just writes in the dust with His finger. Finally, He responds very simply with “Let the man without sin cast the first stone.” And, when everybody else has left, and the woman remains, Jesus does not condemn her–condemning to the stoning, He certainly acknowledges that she has done wrong, however, with “go and sin no more.” He, God, has forgiven her penitence, and gives her the opportunity, now that she’s forgiven, to remain in a state of grace. He doesn’t let her off the hook, though. Too many forget that, after "neither do I condemn you " comes the “go and sin no more.” And again, this passage is directed, not at the disciples, but at the scribes and pharisees.

Apples and oranges. The first passage deals with fraternal love and correction (as well as being sure to deal with our own failings first), among fellow pilgrims on the way to God.

The second deals with those who take on themselves God’s mantle. They aren’t looking for fraternal correction, but for power, intimidation, and secular glory. They aren’t trying to help, but to hinder; they aren’t building up, but tearing down.

And there’s the difference.
 
Catherine of Siena and Francis de Sales write at length about correcting others not by casting judegement, but by offering counsel, through privately talking about sin, that they believe the person may be committing (or even if they have seen proof that demonstrates the person is committing a sin).

Their approach would differ from rather than telling a person, “I know what you’re doing and it is in your best interest to amend your ways,” they would think about a general way to bring up the topic of the specific sin and how it offends God and their neighbors, or better yet, to talk about virtues that contradict the sin, the value of such virtues, the reason they are extoleld as virtue, and how pleasing the virtues are to God and how much practicing them benefits everyone.

Francis de Sales has provides an excellent chapter on of judgement in his Introduction to the Devout Life. He mentions the scriptural references that pertain to judgement, and comments that all judgements made by men are “rash,” because “the principle malice of sin depends on the intention and the counsel of the heart, and to us they are ‘the hidden things of darkness’.” That passing judgement on others usurps the office of our Lord.

He refers to the great need for charity in every situation, particularly these. He reminds us that: “Charity is fearful of meeting evil, so she never looks for it. Whenever she encounters it, she turns her face away and does not look at it. at the first threat of evil, she closes her eyes and later believes with a holy simplicity that it was not evil but a shadow or mere appearance of evil. If sometiems she cannot help admitting it is a real evil, she quickly turns away and tries to foerget even its form.”

He uses Joseph as an example fo a just man who refuses to pass judgement and uses charity in his relations with a person. How Jospeh learend Mary was with child, was not sure how, but decided to divorce her quietly (of course he changed his midn whenhe heard the whole story). “When a just man can no longer explain the fact or the intention of some one whom he otherwise knows to be virtuous, he still will not pass judgement on him, but puts it out of his mind and leaves the judgement to God.”
“It is the part of an unprofitable soul to amuse itself with examining the lives of other people.” However, he excepts people who are "placed in charge of others, whether within a family or within the state.
 
What do you make of the following:

All Maggie has to do to be redeemed by Blood of jesus, IS to repent,
and repentance is admitting her guilt,and stop that particular sin.

Not going to mass to catholic priest and washing her "original
sin’,not to be Baptistize to absolve her “original sin”,but between
she and GOD, renouncing sin and be forgiven.

Now,she wont even repent simple sins such as Sunday shopping!

This is unrepentance and rebellion.

I am giving this as an example, but even one simple sin, a human can
be SO stubborn and disobey GOD.

You repeat this to gays, divorced people,defrauding people to repent
and stop their sin, you will see unbelievable stubbornness in
refusing to repent.

So,if you admit ur sin and stop it, you are instantly redeemed by the
Blood of the lamb.

If you excuse ur sin and not stop, then,you refuse to be redeemed

The person who wrote this diatribe belongs to the Puritan Church. He insists that it is a mortal sin to purchase a cup of coffee, or even a meal on a Sunday. Oh and you better not be watching TV if a Purtian comes knocking on the door.

Maggie
 
Very nice quotes serendipity!

I think we must distinguish judging others *souls *from judging their behavior. It’s God place to judge the state of a person’s soul. But as a society we need to judge behavior. We are allowed to look at people who steal, call them thieves, prosecute them and place them behind bars. However, God will be the ultimate judge of where they spend eternity.

Jesus did not condemn the woman caught in adultery, but He did correct her. He told her to “go and sin no more.”

To tie this into chrisb’s question about I Corinthians, I think it is unloving to leave bad behavior uncorrected. As a parent I must discipline my children so they will be useful members of society. If I failed to judge their behaviors and correct them, I would fail my job as a parent.
 
Maggie, you provided us with a wonderful example of why it’s so important for us to correct with love AND know what we’re talking about! That person provided you with a wonderful opportunity to turn the other cheek and pray for those who persecute you. Assume the writer of those words had good motives, but dismiss the critique.
 
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gardenswithkids:
Maggie, you provided us with a wonderful example of why it’s so important for us to correct with love AND know what we’re talking about! That person provided you with a wonderful opportunity to turn the other cheek and pray for those who persecute you. Assume the writer of those words had good motives, but dismiss the critique.
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Well, no the critique cannot be dismissed if you knew what else he had been stating. That was the reason I took him on in the first place. He was also saying things like: a woman who has divorced her husband must return to her husband; it is stealing to accept alimony and a number of other comments. I challenged him about Sunday shopping for a good reason. The whole thing smacks of legalism and that one’s entry into heaven is dependent upon a whole set of man made rules. There is nothing in the way of good motives in what has been written and this is my point of posting the latest diatribe from him. Was I to sit back and allow him to claim that a woman who can barely look after herself and children is being greedy in accepting alimony? His whole diatribe has been one-sided. I have constantly pointed out the need to love one’s neighbour and that he should ask himself whether he has done certain things such as taking a disabled parking spot without having the necessary permit. He has not answered my question yet.

Maggie
 
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gardenswithkids:
Jesus did not condemn the woman caught in adultery, but He did correct her. He told her to “go and sin no more.”
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Thanks. What I think to remember as improtant too, is Jesus’s special role as a religious leader, not to mention the son of God. I think with it, the parental or state-authority aspect that de Sales referred to is definitiely pertinent. even then, the words of Jesus always impressed me less as judgemental, then as counseling.
 
I would rather have Moses throw a few stones at me than to have St. Peter lock me on the eternal death side of the pearly gates.

It is unlikely that Jesus would have given St. Peter the “Keys to the Kingdom” and then expect him not to damn a few souls to hell. Jesus did not eliminate Old Testament Church judgments. Jesus stepped Church judgments up an eternal notch.

Please visit Throwing Stones
Anathema

In passing this sentence, the pontiff is vested in amice, stole, and a violet cope, wearing his mitre, and assisted by twelve priests clad in their surplices and holding lighted candles. He takes his seat in front of the altar or in some other suitable place, amid pronounces the formula of anathema which ends with these words: “Wherefore in the name of God the All-powerful, Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, of the Blessed Peter, Prince of the Apostles, and of all the saints, in virtue of the power which has been given us of binding and loosing in Heaven and on earth, we deprive N-- himself and all his accomplices and all his abettors of the Communion of the Body and Blood of Our Lord, we separate him from the society of all Christians, we exclude him from the bosom of our Holy Mother the Church in Heaven and on earth, we declare him excommunicated and anathematized and we judge him** condemned to eternal fire with Satan and his **angels and all the reprobate, so long as he will not burst the fetters of the demon, do penance and satisfy the Church; we deliver him to Satan to mortify his body, that his soul may be saved on the day of judgment.”

He who dares to despise our decision, let him be stricken with anathema maranatha, i.e. may he be damned at the coming of the Lord, may he have his place with Judas Iscariot, he and his companions.
****Quoted from New Advent Catholic Encyclopedia. newadvent.org/cathen/01455e.htm
** **NAB MAT 16:13

Jesus replied, “Blest are you, Simon son of John! No mere man has revealed this to you, but my heavenly Father. I for my part declare to you, you are ‘Rock,’ and on this rock I will build my church, and the jaws of death shall not prevail against it. I will entrust to you the keys of the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you declare bound on earth shall be bound in heaven; whatever you declare loosed on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”

Peace in Christ,

Steven Merten

www.ILOVEYOUGOD.com
 
One very good study I saw on this had to do with the difference between judging and discernment. Matt 7:7 uses one word for judge and the passage in 1st Corinthians 2:15 (“But the spiritual man judgeth all things; and he himself is judged of no man.”) uses a different word that is also translated judge as well but actually means to discern.

The writer said that the difference is that Matt 7:7 uses the word for a judicial judge. One who looks at the facts, decides that a crime has been commited, and then passes sentence. He went on to explain that the word in Corinthians means something more like a detective, who looks at the facts and decides that a crime has been commited, but whose job ends right there.

So we are called to discern all things by the Holy Spirit, but to judge no one,

Hopefully that helps some.
Pax vobiscum,
 
Sir Knight:
Jesus instructed us to correct others when they have errored (MATTHEW 18:15-17). He also said that those of us without sin should cast the first stone.

One passage seems to indicate that we are sinners and have no right to judge others and should leave that up to God (judge not and yea shall not be judged) while another passage seems to tell us to judge others (in order to correct someone who has errored, a number of judgements need to be made).

How do we reconcile these two scripture points which seem to be telling us opposite things?
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Hate the sin–not the sinner. 🙂
 
Sir Knight:
But how do we reconcile that with His commandment (MATTHEW 18:15-17) to correct others when we see them doing something wrong?

They seem to conflict with one another :confused:
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correct by example… if they ask you for your (name removed by moderator)ut, answer truthfully and respectfully… there is a real difference in trying to help someone by example and just braying like and A-------- donkey:thumbsup:

tell you what too… the person is more likely to listen to someone sincere in trying to help his/her brother/sister… the last thing most people want is another parent…:twocents:
 
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