Just a Cathloics comment after 74 years

[Gottle_of_Geer]

In all my years as a Roman Catholic I can think of only one instance where anyone ever said anything negative about my faith, and that was not direct, but was based on knowing I was Catholic and asking me a question that expressed some negativity with Catholic belief.

I don’t think the RCC is under attack “from many sources.” I do think that a small minority of ultra conservative Catholics feel so, but it largely because of their social views being attacked rather than the Mother Church. You simply now find yourself in the same boat with the bible belt Christians who have always been targeted with their rigid fundamentalist views and their desire to impose them on everyone else. Ironically, it is they who do in fact preach against the unholy Catholic church.

What I am amazed at is the obsession of the minority Conservatives with being attacked.

My feelings exactly. In the UK, Catholics don’t go on & on & on about being attacked - we take things in our stride. Every so often, some Catholic who is a more or less public figure will complain about this or that: the Act of Succession, Government policies on this or that (usually something left to the bishops), the behaviour of Government or of MPs, the banking crisis; but this persecution mania ? No.​

What I find really peeve-making is that the Churches - all of them - in the UK would give their eye-teeth to be as badly off as the CC in the US. If the strengths they enjoy are persecution, then: “Oh God, please send us in the UK lots of persecution”. It’s rich, influential, its list of scandals is far shorter than that of much older Churches…it has so much to be grateful for. But is it ?

It’s understandable that the young might think they are persecuted when people are merely differing from them because their own religious upbringing has been different - but one expects maturer & wiser judgements from those who are no longer children, students, or adolescents.

It is the source of why this site was started as I understand it, and frankly is rather foreign to the Catholic upbringing I had, namely that as Roman Catholics we were above this sort of thing.

But you can be proud, because at least here, the Catholic desire to bash virtually every other Protestant denomination,

Not very wise - it’s the equivalent of self-harm.​

as well as all non-Christian faiths is most alive and well. One need but peruse the thread titles to see this. And of course, a fair amount of bashing one’s own who don’t tow the official line. So there is a great deal of reciprocity in the bashing sphere to go around me thinks.

Catholic “conservatism” is as self-seeking in its own way as any of the forms of “liberalism” it denounces. The proof of this is its party spirit: if it were truly Christian at heart, it would not try to distance itself from people; on the contrary, it would go towards them, & be with them. It would not shun them, still less would it deny that they are as Catholic as the “conservatives”. The Jewish critics of Jesus behaved like the “conservatives” - they were too concerned about God to see the neighbour they were commanded to love. So they disobeyed the second great commandment - which meant that they did not keep the first either. It was not the “accursed rabble, who do not keep the Law” who plotted against Jesus: it was the Rosary-swingers, Mass-goers, Bible-readers, & novena-attenders of that time who did so. They despised their neighbours - so when God became their neighbour, they despised Him. Is there no warning here for us ?​

If religion does not bring us closer to our neighbour, if it destroys communion rather than building it, is it something we should bother with ? If it has Christian qualities - it may well be from Christ. If it is far from Christian in its qualities, then it is not from Christ, no matter how “valid” it can prove itself to be. Orthodoxy & purity & devoutness & the rest of it are of no value whatever except to damn those who have them, if there is no love in us - for without love, not one of us is anything whatever.

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

I think Spiritmeadow was quoting in a general way:

It would have been clearer had he put quotes around the word “unholy”. From what I’ve read, I don’t think that is the personal sentiment of Spiritmeadow, but the sentiments of those he was aluding to.

Jon

That’s exactly how I read it - not as the OP’s opinion, but as an expression of the opinion of those who do in fact hold it. It’s a shame computers can’t express tones of voice, for that would have left no ambiguity. Smilies can’t do it.​

 

[adrift]

How are you defining ultra conservative Catholic?

Those Catholics that hold abortion, homosexuality, divorce as being an evil and hold that you must obey the Church. Those Catholics who according to their conscience believe that there are theologians that are not faithful. Those Catholics who point out that the Church does not have an official teaching, that is one that all Catholics must believe, on evolution. That Catholics must follow Church law regarding marriage, birth control etc. It is those Catholics who believe more in what the Church teaches then what “experts” say. In other word, all faithful Catholics who live their faith daily are ultra conservatives. I believe that by calling others ultra it’s a way to dull the conscience by putting down diminishing and minimizing what you are not living.

 

[Mark77]

“And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it.” (Mt 16:18).

To deny the anti-Catholic bias in the Christian world is foolhardy. To deny the Catholic hatred in the secular world is ridiculous!

Perhaps it our fault as we do not live up to the treasure we have been given!

We must progress with love and selfless sacrifice to be an example for the world to emulate.

Mother Theresa says it beautifully! (youtube.com/watch?v=TA3Ujz5r3_g&feature=related)

Sancta Maria, Mater Dei, Ora Pro Nobis Peccatoribus!

mark

 

[SpiritMeadow]

I agree. Defending the faith has turned into mean triumphantalism and telling Non-RC whats wrong with their churches.I have no truck with the right wing Protestants who bash Catholics for doctrinal differences either, but alas, I have always thought the RC’s a more mature group. It saddens me to see all this bashing. It is one thing to discuss differences, but the desire to tell others that their faiths are “worthless” or just about so, "no eucharist, no genuine clergy etc., certainly creates antagonism instead of a basis for discussion.

What seems to be missing, is the realization that non-RC’s obviously don’t agree with the Vatican’s pronouncements on the efficacy of other churches. We understand her reasoning for doing so quite obviously, but her followers don’t seem to at least to me.

As I said, I don’t have patience for the right wingers on the Protestant side either. Their constant yakking about worshiping Mary and dead saints and all that stuff is old and more than explanable. Trouble is they don’t want to listen, because they can’t afford to open their minds.

In that they share with the conservative element in the RCC who also are not open to any other possibility of truth other than that which is delivered to them via the Magisterium. They of course also share that the only real issue that matters is abortion. Nothing else matters, and that can really can a conversation quickly.

 

[SpiritMeadow]

Those Catholics that hold abortion, homosexuality, divorce as being an evil and hold that you must obey the Church. Those Catholics who according to their conscience believe that there are theologians that are not faithful. Those Catholics who point out that the Church does not have an official teaching, that is one that all Catholics must believe, on evolution. That Catholics must follow Church law regarding marriage, birth control etc. It is those Catholics who believe more in what the Church teaches then what “experts” say. In other word, all faithful Catholics who live their faith daily are ultra conservatives. I believe that by calling others ultra it’s a way to dull the conscience by putting down diminishing and minimizing what you are not living.

That’s a pretty ultra conservative view of ultra conservativism! You have a very very dark attitude toward ultra conservativism I think.

 

[Monica4316]

We Catholics are under a continuous bombardment of negativism from many sources. How many times have you heard from the pulpit a Catholic priest deliberately attacking a non-Catholic Church? I do not recall one single case in which this has happened. Yet others take great pleasure in attacking our Catholic Church, and they will do it from the pulpit. It amazes me how some non-Catholic sects seem to spend a significant percentage of their time in attacking our Church, instead of preaching to their own followers, of “love thy neighbor” as taught by the Word of GOD in Holy Scripture. God bless you all. and your preachers.

hmm I agree…
in my experience as a Protestant, the Church is really criticized by many. My old pastor (non denominational) even gave a whole sermon about the Catholic Church lol. He’s a good pastor but even then the sermon upset me.

 

[JonNC]

hmm I agree…
in my experience as a Protestant, the Church is really criticized by many. My old pastor (non denominational) even gave a whole sermon about the Catholic Church lol. He’s a good pastor but even then the sermon upset me.

Nickles to doughnuts he wasn’t very accurate in his understanding of Catholicism.

During divine service, my expectations are that my pastor is focused on word and sacrament, not what other traditions think. My expectation, as I said earlier, has never been disappointed.
My pastor should allow our leaders to dialogue, and he should always remember Luther’s commentary on the 8th Commandment in the Small Catechism.

Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor.
What does this mean?– Answer:
We should fear and love God that we may not deceitfully belie, betray, slander, or defame our neighbor, but defend him, [think and] speak well of him, and put the best construction on everything.

Jon

 

[adrift]

That’s a pretty ultra conservative view of ultra conservativism! You have a very very dark attitude toward ultra conservativism I think.

Nice try at a dodge. It is after all not my view but yours. I have called no one ultra. Those who use ultra are trying to diminish the other persons view just as is attempted in this post. It wasn’t even a good try.