I quoted Fr. Barron, who provides no direct quotes to support his case.) I have seen no evidence to prove his assertion that “righting the wrongs of other nations” is no longer criteria for just war in Catholic doctrine.
So you are concluding that, based on a lack of evidence, Fr. Barron is lying?
I also believe Benedict XVI, as Pope, said that Catholics or free to disagree with him over whether or not the Iraq War meet the criteria of just war or not.
OK I would be interested to see that because I don’t think it exists. Can I ask, do you think the Iraq war met the criteria of a “just war”?
if, for the sake of argument, Poland in 1939 was able to thwart the Nazi invasion by launching a preemptive strike against the German army, would it have the right to do so?
No, I don’t believe that would have been morally legitimate in the same way the bomb dropped Hiroshima was not legitimate (at least not from a Catholic perspective), least of all in light of the subsequent Nagasaki bomb.
If China is preparing to launch a nuclear attack on the US, does the US have the right to try and destroy China’s nuclear missiles beforehand?)
It’s a good question, I would say probably not, but that justification would depend on what evidence there was.
So … nobody should attack an enemy target, ever, if it’s remotely near a civilian place?
It’s not acceptable for innocents to be slaughtered—you know this is sound Catholic teaching. For example, it is not OK for 10 innocents to die in order for a hundred to live. This is a lesser of two evils argument and such an argument is not compatible with Catholilc teaching. I can give you references for that as confirmed teaching:
Pope Paul VI said:
“it is never lawful, even for the gravest reasons, to do evil that good may come of it (cf. Rom 3:8) — in other words, to intend directly something which of its very nature contradicts the moral order, and which must therefore be judged unworthy of man, even though the intention is to protect or promote the welfare of an individual, of a family or of society in general”
John Paul II:
If acts are intrinsically evil, a good intention or particular circumstances can diminish their evil, but they cannot remove it. They remain “irremediably” evil acts; per se and in themselves they are not capable of being ordered to God and to the good of the person. “As for acts which are themselves sins (cum iam opera ipsa peccata sunt), Saint Augustine writes, like theft, fornication, blasphemy, who would dare affirm that, by doing them for good motives (causis bonis), they would no longer be sins, or, what is even more absurd, that they would be sins that are justified?”.134
Consequently, circumstances or intentions can never transform an act intrinsically evil by virtue of its object into an act “subjectively” good or defensible as a choice.
- Furthermore, an intention is good when it has as its aim the true good of the person in view of his ultimate end. But acts whose object is “not capable of being ordered” to God and “unworthy of the human person” are always and in every case in conflict with that good. Consequently, respect for norms which prohibit such acts and oblige semper et pro semper, that is, without any exception, not only does not inhibit a good intention, but actually represents its basic expression.
You seem to have a “hermeneutic of suspicion” here.
I see what you’ve done there! Very nice!!
While I wouldn’t be surprised if the military was exaggerating the effectiveness of their weapons, I’m still open to the possibility that they aren’t. I wonder if there’s any USAF Iraq veterans or other pilots who have used these weapons and can so comment on their actual battlefield accuracy.
You only have to read the reports and watch the footage to evaluate for yourself what an impossible task the politicians charge our armed forced with when they expect them to take out specific targets in urban areas whilst avoiding civilian casualties. In fact, as I’ve said, it is impossible. Any conflict inevitably incurs collateral damage.
So you do think the just war theory is licit in this day and age! So apparently Ratzinger, in his pre-papal comments about just war, was wrong.
No, I am a papist and a loyal one.
I humbly accept my lack of understanding before the mighty intellect of Ratzinger, Wojtyla,
et. al. But I am trying to understand better, and in the meanwhile, I will talk to my peers, like yourself, inform myself as best as I can, and attempt to work out the position as best as I can according to my on intellect. My position is not absolute, but formed by the amount of knowledge I am able to assimilate. I think that ultimate force is a conceivable last resort.
As for the Libya situation, I’m not sure there’s any real good guys there - yes, Gaddafi is an evil despot, but the Arab Muslims always seem to vote in the jihadis once they get rid of their tyrants, so…
Good point, makes you wonder what we are supporting? Better the devil you know? Do we want the Libyans to have democratic rites? When the Palestinians exorcised their own democratic rites, we didn’t like the way it turned out and isolated them! Our governments are supporting the revolution in Egypt, but are we ushering in the Muslim brotherhood?
