Justification and Grace According the Catholic Church

[JustinApologist]

zcharry from another thread is apparently trying to derail a topic. Therefore, I decided to create a new thread concerning justification and grace.

The CCC states in 2010:

Since the initiative belongs to God in the order of grace, no one can merit the initial grace of forgiveness and justification, at the beginning of conversion. Moved by the Holy Spirit and by charity, we can then merit for ourselves and for others the graces needed for our sanctification, for the increase of grace and charity, and for the attainment of eternal life. Even temporal goods like health and friendship can be merited in accordance with God’s wisdom. These graces and goods are the object of Christian prayer. Prayer attends to the grace we need for meritorious actions.

Let us break this down.

The first sentence states, the initiative belongs to God in the order of grace, no one can merit the initial grace of forgiveness and justification at the beginning of conversion.

This statement does ring true. Because when you are converted, by your own you cannot merit the grace. Only by the Holy Spirit can we merit the grace of God. The Holy Spirit moves us. He gives us the charity, and a deep desire for eternal life. Graces are gain further if prayers is put into practice.

Justification is a process. It is not a one time event. That is why our Protestant friend here seem to take the word out of context because he believe it is a one time thing. It isn’t. When we convert we are move by the Holy Spirit to pray so that we may not fall into sin. Through prayer, we attend more graces. Prayer is a form of action that Christians must do.

Now let us look what grace means.

2003 Grace is first and foremost the gift of the Spirit who justifies and sanctifies us. But grace also includes the gifts that the Spirit grants us to associate us with his work, to enable us to collaborate in the salvation of others and in the growth of the Body of Christ, the Church. There are sacramental graces, gifts proper to the different sacraments. There are furthermore special graces, also called charisms after the Greek term used by St. Paul and meaning “favor,” “gratuitous gift,” "benefit."53 Whatever their character - sometimes it is extraordinary, such as the gift of miracles or of tongues - charisms are oriented toward sanctifying grace and are intended for the common good of the Church. They are at the service of charity which builds up the Church.54

Note the bold text that we must colloborate in the salvation of others…

Keep in mind these other CCC from the Catechism:

1987 The grace of the Holy Spirit has the power to justify us, that is, to cleanse us from our sins and to communicate to us “the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ” and through Baptism:34

But if we have died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him. For we know that Christ being raised from the dead will never die again; death no longer has dominion over him. The death he died he died to sin, once for all, but the life he lives he lives to God. So you also must consider yourselves as dead to sin and alive to God in Christ Jesus.35

1988 Through the power of the Holy Spirit we take part in Christ’s Passion by dying to sin, and in his Resurrection by being born to a new life; we are members of his Body which is the Church, branches grafted onto the vine which is himself:36

[God] gave himself to us through his Spirit. By the participation of the Spirit, we become communicants in the divine nature. . . . For this reason, those in whom the Spirit dwells are divinized.37

If you look at the entire context read this:

scborromeo.org/ccc/p3s1c3a2.htm#1999

There is no contradict of this teachings.

Fellow Catholic Apologists, I need your support.

 

[zcharry]

zcharry from another thread is apparently trying to derail a topic. Therefore, I decided to create a new thread concerning justification and grace.

The CCC states in 2010:

Let us break this down.

The first sentence states, the initiative belongs to God in the order of grace, no one can merit the initial grace of forgiveness and justification at the beginning of conversion.

This statement does ring true. Because when you are converted, by your own you cannot merit the grace. Only by the Holy Spirit can we merit the grace of God. The Holy Spirit moves us. He gives us the charity, and a deep desire for eternal life. Graces are gain further if prayers is put into practice.

Justification is a process. It is not a one time event. That is why our Protestant friend here seem to take the word out of context because he believe it is a one time thing. It isn’t. When we convert we are move by the Holy Spirit to pray so that we may not fall into sin. Through prayer, we attend more graces. Prayer is a form of action that Christians must do.

Now let us look what grace means.

2003 Grace is first and foremost the gift of the Spirit who justifies and sanctifies us. But grace also includes the gifts that the Spirit grants us to associate us with his work, to enable us to collaborate in the salvation of others and in the growth of the Body of Christ, the Church. There are sacramental graces, gifts proper to the different sacraments. There are furthermore special graces, also called charisms after the Greek term used by St. Paul and meaning “favor,” “gratuitous gift,” "benefit."53 Whatever their character - sometimes it is extraordinary, such as the gift of miracles or of tongues - charisms are oriented toward sanctifying grace and are intended for the common good of the Church. They are at the service of charity which builds up the Church.54

Note the bold text that we must colloborate in the salvation of others…

Keep in mind these other CCC from the Catechism:

1987 The grace of the Holy Spirit has the power to justify us, that is, to cleanse us from our sins and to communicate to us “the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ” and through Baptism:34

But if we have died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him. For we know that Christ being raised from the dead will never die again; death no longer has dominion over him. The death he died he died to sin, once for all, but the life he lives he lives to God. So you also must consider yourselves as dead to sin and alive to God in Christ Jesus.35

1988 Through the power of the Holy Spirit we take part in Christ’s Passion by dying to sin, and in his Resurrection by being born to a new life; we are members of his Body which is the Church, branches grafted onto the vine which is himself:36

[God] gave himself to us through his Spirit. By the participation of the Spirit, we become communicants in the divine nature. . . . For this reason, those in whom the Spirit dwells are divinized.37

If you look at the entire context read this:

scborromeo.org/ccc/p3s1c3a2.htm#1999

There is no contradict of this teachings.

Fellow Catholic Apologists, I need your support.

I take offense at your accusations of me trying to derail a tread I was answering your questions.
I will not response to your twisted lies.
It is very clear what your CC says and you can twist all day and it proves nothing!

 

[JustinApologist]

I take offense at your accusations of me trying to derail a tread I was answering your questions.
I will not response to your twisted lies.
It is very clear what your CC says and you can twist all day and it proves nothing!

You did. The thread in which this originate from was about Writings Which the Catholic Church decided to be the “Canon” of Scripture of the New Testament, which has nothing to do with grace.

I can point out several posts in which you rerailed the topic. You stated the following:

You wrote this in post # 27

All of the arguments Roman Catholicism brings to set Peter up as the first Pope are done only to uphold its false teaching which says that people are saved, not by Christ’s saving alone, but also by the deeds of penance they do. It is this teaching, which Roman Catholicism says has been taught by Popes ever since Peter, which also gives us the reason for the way Roman Catholicism interprets Mt 16:18.

Note the bold text, which you wrote. This part of this text is completely way off the topic of the other thread. Tell me, did you wrote this or not?

If you say yes, you did attempt to derail that thread. I must admit I too may have derail the topic, but I’m trying to bring the original topic in the other thread back into the original intent of the OP.

 

[zcharry]

You did. The thread in which this originate from was about Writings Which the Catholic Church decided to be the “Canon” of Scripture of the New Testament, which has nothing to do with grace.

I can point out several posts in which you rerailed the topic. You stated the following:

You wrote this in post # 27

Note the bold text, which you wrote. This part of this text is completely way off the topic of the other thread. Tell me, did you wrote this or not?

If you say yes, you did attempt to derail that thread. I must admit I too may have derail the topic, but I’m trying to bring the original topic in the other thread back into the original intent of the OP.

That quote misrepresents my whole post and what was being said
You are lying that may be harsh talk but the truth hurts
I wrote a post on the topic and at the ever end of my post a reason was given for the justification. You started to go off topic I quote your response.

Your view of the Catholic Church is completely distorted and is very far from the Truth. Peter’s confesses that Jesus is the Messiah, Son of the Living God, which the Catholic Church acknowledges. The Church also affirms that it is God’s grace that saves. There is no teaching in the Catholic Church that deeds of penance saves. Penance strengthens but it is God’s grace that saves.

The idea that the CC teachings that only through works we are save is false. It is only through the grace of God that we are save. It is not by faith alone.

Please stop your lying!

 

[JustinApologist]

That quote misrepresents my whole post and what was being said
You are lying that may be harsh talk but the truth hurts
I wrote a post on the topic and at the ever end of my post a reason was given for the justification. You started to go off topic I quote your response.

I’m not lying and second I admit I also derailed the topic.

Your view of the Catholic Church is completely distorted and is very far from the Truth. Peter’s confesses that Jesus is the Messiah, Son of the Living God, which the Catholic Church acknowledges. The Church also affirms that it is God’s grace that saves. There is no teaching in the Catholic Church that deeds of penance saves. Penance strengthens but it is God’s grace that saves.

Yes I wrote that and I admit that I did derailed. You also derail the topic by the quote I cited.

The idea that the CC teachings that only through works we are save is false. It is only through the grace of God that we are save. It is not by faith alone.

Please stop your lying!

I’m not lying here. Is it you because you denied that you derail the topic.

 

[Church_Militant]

So… are you guys through arguing more off-topic points or would you like to perhaps get into the meat of the discussion.

What’s your point about grace zcharry? Start with the Catechism quote. So far I haven’t seen you offer any substantive evidence for your remarks, just disagreeing rhetoric.

The CCC states in 2010:

Since the initiative belongs to God in the order of grace, no one can merit the initial grace of forgiveness and justification, at the beginning of conversion. Moved by the Holy Spirit and by charity, we can then merit for ourselves and for others the graces needed for our sanctification, for the increase of grace and charity, and for the attainment of eternal life. Even temporal goods like health and friendship can be merited in accordance with God’s wisdom. These graces and goods are the object of Christian prayer. Prayer attends to the grace we need for meritorious actions.

So…make your case with respect and charity and we’ll see what gives.

Pax Domini sit semper vobiscum.

 

[Mannyfit75]

So… are you guys through arguing more off-topic points or would you like to perhaps get into the meat of the discussion.

What’s your point about grace zcharry? Start with the Catechism quote. So far I haven’t seen you offer any substantive evidence for your remarks, just disagreeing rhetoric.

So…make your case with respect and charity and we’ll see what gives.

Pax Domini sit semper vobiscum.

I check the entire place on grace from the Catechism of the Catholic Church. I think zcharry did put the issue on grace out of context just as Justin stated.

He pick one para 2010 in the CCC and say this statement contradict all other teachings and calling them false.

zcharry can’t seem to add all of the context together.

scborromeo.org/ccc/p3s1c3a2.htm#1999 Check the reference.

I highly recommend reading the End Brief it summarizes Article 2 on Law and Justification.

 

[Anne_Carmel]

Closed for review. Thank you for your patience.