Justification of violence in scripture (Deut 7)

[DrumminFool91]

I am an active Catholic but have a question in regards to violence in scripture. I heard an atheist (I think it was Richard Dawkins, not sure though) make a statement that basically says the God of the Bible condones genocide/ extreme violence (i.e. the case of the Canaanites and the “ban”). How should we as God-fearing Catholics respond to statements such as these? How do we justify what seems (at least on the surface) to be essentially the Jews being commanded by God to slaughter and “have no mercy” on the 7 Canaanite tribes in Deut. 7:1,2?

Thanks for all the help on this, and God Bless Catholic Answers for their great and charitable work!

 

[Nita]

Hi Drummin and welcome to the forum.

Considering the physical circumstances of Israel at the time (nomadic, lack of resources, etc.), where incarceration in jail was not an option, how were the wicked to be dealt with? This was a whole culture that needed to be destroyed because of its wickedness.
[As a weak comparison, think of the polygamist enclave in Texas, where the behavior is engrained in the culture itself. Altho, in comparison, what the Texans were doing is very mild – and would not even have been necessarily considered wrong in OT days!!]

God promised the land to Abraham 400 years prior to when his descendants would be allowed to take it over. Only when the wickedness of the Canaanites was complete would God allow and assist the Jews in taking over the land. (Gen 15:16 And they shall come back here in the fourth generation; for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet complete.)

Here is some of what the culture consisted of:
Incest, homosexual actions, bestiality. (Leviticus 18)
Human sacrifice of children, witchcraft, mediums, wizards, (Leviticus 19 & 20)

How do you deal justly with such an evil culture?
What about **good people **who dwell in such a culture? How is justice done for them as they live and try to raise children in conformity with God’s values?

A just society upholds what is good and protects people from what is harmful. In addition, it establishes punishments for harmful acts.

We may not be able to see when a culture has become so depraved, it’s ways so engrained in the inhabitants that the only solution is to destroy it,— but God can. However, we can know and trust that when God ordered the destruction of the Canaanites, it was not only what was best for the Jews (and future generations here on earth), but also what was best for the Canaanites.

There is another thread currently going on this topic. You might want to check it out.
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=237213

Nita

 

[Tantum_ergo]

Although it is very hard for human beings to consider that there can be any kind of justice that doesn’t agree with the human concept of justice or justification, that is really the only explanation.

God is not only Creator (and we are ‘created’), He is literally the one with the power of life and death. We might think that we have that power and certainly human beings can kill other humans and other beings. . .but only because God has a created a world in which, under normal circumstances, physical actions have ‘reactions’. A bullet entering a human body will do some kind of damage depending on what it hits in that body; even if no fatal injury is made, if there is a resultant infection the person can die. All sorts of ‘natural’ things kill today. . .disease, whether it is viral, bacterial, or a ‘byproduct’ of aging such as heart disease.

Now if God were nothing more or less than a human, and He ‘killed’ another to benefit somebody else, then we could complain indeed that He did not obey ‘human justification’. Even if He were a kind of ‘super’ human with ‘enhanced powers’, we could complain.

But God is not human. He is not just ‘another’ being. He is so far above that that we shouldn’t be comparing our ideas of ‘justice’ and demanding HE live up to THEM. . .we should be humbly trying to live up to HIS ideas and acknowledging that our ‘best’ ideas are, in comparison to His knowledge, pitiful, childish, and at best comparable to a 3 year old’s ‘stick’ figure compared to Michelangelo’s “David”. . .both are ‘artistic’ representations but the child’s is incomplete, barely recognizable.

So instead of going, “How could ‘god’ kill ‘innocent people’”, ask, "Why do we presume to judge not just the innocence or guilt of those people, but the ‘innocence or guilt’ of Almighty God?

Imagine that 3 year old demanding that Michelangelo destroy his “David” and bow down to the child saying that the CHILD’s work was the total and complete artistic masterpiece and his own work was not only bad, but evil. . .

That’s pretty much what people are trying to do–put “God in the dock” against humanity claiming how great ‘we’ are and how much more god-like, charitable, and perfect our idea of god, justice, etc.

 

[Meathead]

The only justification you need is that God commanded it. End of story.