Justifying "controversial" quotes from bible in a debate

[Down77]

Hey guys,

I have a little problem. I have a friend, he’s an atheist & he’s really into politics & philosophy.

We debate politics a lot and sometimes the debate comes to Christianity. What he does to “prove” to me that Christianity, or what God/prophets say in the Old & New Testament is wrong is that he picks some quotes that are controversial/kind of disturb people. One example:

1 Corinthians 14:34-35

Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.

And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

there are couple more in the New Testament and even more in the Old Testament involving slaves, rape, etc. Even though I as a catholic should go by the New Testament, the argument against can be that it was the same God who “wrote” the Old Testament.

Even though I can’t reason why that stuff is there, I believe in God and I’m certain there’s some explanation - so it won’t shake my faith. Maybe even you can give me some explanations. The problem is that I don’t know what to say when an atheist asks about it. Maybe I can explain some, but certainly not all. It’s enough when I can’t explain just one - it just looks bad in a discussion, especially when there are other people around.

I just don’t want people to think they shouldn’t believe in God or something just because I can’t explain some quotes.

What should I do?

Thanks!

 

[Hodos]

Even though I can’t reason why that stuff is there, I believe in God and I’m certain there’s some explanation - so it won’t shake my faith. Maybe even you can give me some explanations. The problem is that I don’t know what to say when an atheist asks about it. Maybe I can explain some, but certainly not all. It’s enough when I can’t explain just one - it just looks bad in a discussion, especially when there are other people around.

No one says you have to have all the answers at your fingertips all the time. There is nothing wrong with saying, “You know what, you raise a valid objection about this verse, let me check it out and I will get back to you.”

Nine times out of ten you will find that the verse is taken out of context by the person once you read through the passage. In this case, Paul is upholding good order in the worship service by standing firm on God’s intention that the husband is the head of the family and is responsible for the spiritual leadership in his household. He does so by going back to the creation story and how God ordered creation pre- and post- fall.

 

[Horton]

First you must explain that the bible wasn’t written in bits & pieces, such as chapters & verses. First Corinthians was a letter written by St Paul to the Church in Corinth to address some of the issues they were having in the start of the Church in that area. So there is the context and audience.

Next tell your friend the chapter itself (or that part of the letter) as a whole is addressing the use of the gift of speaking in tongues. So a bit more context added.

Finally you need to explain St Paul wrote this letter in a certain time period where the culture was much different than it is now.

So when speaking about the bible to others, especially when they throw a verse or two at you in an attempt to prove you are wrong, don’t debate the verse or two, look at the writer, who was he writing to (audience), what was the culture of the audience (Jews, Gentiles, Romans), and what was the writer writing about in general.

I have no idea when chapter numbers and verse numbers were added to the bible, may have to research that, but the bible wasn’t written with them so when folks say things like Joe 78:3-4 says xyz and that means God said cba, they really have no idea because whatever xyz said, it was said in a greater context that just itself.

One more thing, always be prepared with a bible near you. I have an app on my phone for the times I don’t actually have a bible in book form around me.

 

[goout]

1. The bible is written in a specific cultural context. What is that context? What are the particular cultural norms and mores? Do they apply in today’s culture?
2. What does the passage speak to us, today, in our culture?
3. Catholics don’t read the bible like fundamentalist literalists, so when an atheist whips these tired objections out, maybe they showed up for the wrong debate.

 

[Dan_Defender]

1 Corinthians 14:34-35

Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.

And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

So? this is Church discipline not the deposit of faith. Discipline can change. Better ask him why atheism has proven historically to be unnatural to the human experience. Why there has never been a successful atheistic society. That in itself proves that atheism is not exceedingly obvious, logical or rational.