JW question - Wisdom in the book of Proverbs

[ssr]

Hi!
I have a question about talking to a Jehovah’s Witness about the Trinity. I have a copy of their booklet “Should You Believe In the Trinity,” and in it they talk about verses from Proverbs (8:12, 22, 25, 26):

“Yahweh created me, first fruits of his fashioning, before the oldest of his works. Before the mountains were settled, before the hills, I came to birth; before he had made the earth, the countryside, and the first elements of the world.”

and they say that Wisdom refers to the prehuman Jesus, and that Jesus was therefore a created being.

I always thought that Wisdom in Proverbs and the book of Wisdom did refer to Jesus, am I correct here? And if so, does anyone have thoughts on what I should tell my friend about the verses quoted above?

Thanks!

 

[MistyF]

ssr:

Hi!
I have a question about talking to a Jehovah’s Witness about the Trinity. I have a copy of their booklet “Should You Believe In the Trinity,” and in it they talk about verses from Proverbs (8:12, 22, 25, 26):

“Yahweh created me, first fruits of his fashioning, before the oldest of his works. Before the mountains were settled, before the hills, I came to birth; before he had made the earth, the countryside, and the first elements of the world.”

and they say that Wisdom refers to the prehuman Jesus, and that Jesus was therefore a created being.

I always thought that Wisdom in Proverbs and the book of Wisdom did refer to Jesus, am I correct here? And if so, does anyone have thoughts on what I should tell my friend about the verses quoted above?

Thanks!

First, try Jeff’s site, he has a page regarding Discussing the Trinity with Jehovah’s Witnesses. (Make sure to click the “more information” link at the bottom, there are two pages to this). His explanation is really great.

And take a look at the tracts from Catholic Answers about the Trinity. If I find any other good stuff, I’ll post it.

 

[MistyF]

Oh, and another good one, Phillipians 2:9-11:

Because of this, God greatly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bend, of those in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

which, even in the JW’s bible says:

For this very reason also God exalted him to a superior position and kindly gave him the name that is above every [other] name, so that in the name of Jesus every knee should bend of those in heaven and those on earth and those under the ground, and every tongue should openly acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father.

 

[MistyF]

Ok, one more and it’s bedtime. LOL. Isaiah 43:10 says:

You are my witnesses, says the LORD, my servants whom I have chosen To know and believe in me and understand that it is I. Before me no god was formed, and after me there shall be none.

and in the JW bible:

“YOU are my witnesses,” is the utterance of Jehovah, “even my servant whom I have chosen, in order that YOU may know and have faith in me, and that YOU may understand that I am the same One. Before me there was no God formed, and after me there continued to be none.

Well, according to John 1:1

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Or, even with the JWs mistranslation:

In [the] beginning the Word was, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god.

And the JWs agree that the Word in John 1:1 was referring to Jesus. So, how could He be a god, if He was formed after God? They missed some logic there…

 

[Evanescence]

Be careful though when discussing the Trinity with the Jehovah’s witness because they are well trained on this topic.

 

[hlgomez]

Great argument from twisted interpretations!

Put it like this. Jesus is the Wisdom of God. And they say Wisdom was created by God (as they interpret Proverbs).

Since Wisdom was “created” by God; had there been a time when God didn’t have Wisdom? Let them answer.

Pio