JWs visited today and that led to a thought

[Georgia]

I had a couple of JWs by the house today, one a former Catholic, and that led to a lively discussion at our house. The JWs and members of Christians outside the Church have one huge advantage over us, smaller congregations.

The first 35 years or so of my life, I was in a fundamentalist Baptist church. Everyone knew everyone else and I have always thought that was a bonding experience. When I made my last visit to my old church before converting, I was living out of state and was home for vacation. I went to a pew, sat down, and someone came over to tell me it was where Mrs. XXXX normally sat. The same thing happened twice more before I found an acceptable seat.

That would never happen at our church. The Mass is always packed and there are five per Sunday. People attend at different times and, like me, at different churches, depending on my work schedule putting me on the job when I could not make Mass at my church.

The tight bonding from smaller groups seems, based on my experience, to keep people in the fold. People are recognized for not missing a Sunday in years. There are names, faces, common interests and whatever. Our church is over 3,000 people and I have been there for over ten years. I never miss Mass, but I could not name more than a handful of people there.

Maybe I am wrong, but I think the number of mass times and the large congregations leads to anonymous church members who are ripe for the picking by JWs and others who offer friendship and close ties. Our people are religiously alone. If I could change one thing about being this side of the Tiber, it would be that we could have much tighter congregations so we could more effectively resist sheep-stealing.

 

[Dorothy]

I had a couple of JWs by the house today, one a former Catholic, and that led to a lively discussion at our house. The JWs and members of Christians outside the Church have one huge advantage over us, smaller congregations.

The first 35 years or so of my life, I was in a fundamentalist Baptist church. Everyone knew everyone else and I have always thought that was a bonding experience. When I made my last visit to my old church before converting, I was living out of state and was home for vacation. I went to a pew, sat down, and someone came over to tell me it was where Mrs. XXXX normally sat. The same thing happened twice more before I found an acceptable seat.

That would never happen at our church. The Mass is always packed and there are five per Sunday. People attend at different times and, like me, at different churches, depending on my work schedule putting me on the job when I could not make Mass at my church.

The tight bonding from smaller groups seems, based on my experience, to keep people in the fold. People are recognized for not missing a Sunday in years. There are names, faces, common interests and whatever. Our church is over 3,000 people and I have been there for over ten years. I never miss Mass, but I could not name more than a handful of people there.

Maybe I am wrong, but I think the number of mass times and the large congregations leads to anonymous church members who are ripe for the picking by JWs and others who offer friendship and close ties. Our people are religiously alone. If I could change one thing about being this side of the Tiber, it would be that we could have much tighter congregations so we could more effectively resist sheep-stealing.

I am in a large parish, and have community with a lot of people there. There are many ministries, ladies and mens groups, Bible studies, pot-luck suppers, etc. that a parish member can take part in. There is no reason that a member should feel distant from other parishioners.

 

[Tonks40]

I experience the same in my parish. Though for the past year and a half I haven’t been as active (due to school), it never fails each Sunday that I get a hug, wave, a hello.

I also do a lot of invitations to other Catholics to come to my parish. Sometimes it works - and when it does, it’s great to see a familiar face there.

 

[OneTrueCathApos]

Why don’t you just realize that you are there for God and no one else? That we are not there to be entertained but to hear the Gospel and receive the Eucharist?
If two people were at Mass, I could care less, as long as I am there.
Although my church is packed every Saturday and Sunday, it wouldn’t bother me. Too much emphasis is always put on distractions and not enough on the real reasons why you are there.

 

[Among_Strangers]

Georgia, I think you are right. Being Christian is to live in community. In the US Catholic tradition today we mostly see that community spiritually as we celebrate Mass. But we are physical beings too are we not? The Mass doesn’t lend itself to what Protestants might call fellowship. The Mass, though communal, is rather highly individualized. We pray silently, we revere Christ in the consecration and (ideally) when the Mass is over there is more quietude for reflection, meditation, and silent prayer. With all of that where is the fellowship? It is non-existent.

For people like me, that’s fine. I could be a hermit and a contemplative. But for others, like my wife for example, it is the physical community of the faithful that allows her to live out her Christian life and without it she is not exercising her spiritual gifts. We have to seek that outside the Mass. I have found Focolare to be great for this. There are all sorts of Lay Ministries to get into. Then there is always the invite someone from Church over for dinner and take it from there.

 

[zaffiroborant]

Georgia, **when the Mass is over there is more quietude for reflection, meditation, and silent prayer. ** With all of that where is the fellowship? It is non-existent…

This hasn’t been my experience after Mass. As a kid in a small town parish I’d play after Mass (not so hard as to wreck my clothes though) while my parents and grandparents visited other adults. Now, in our suburban parish of 3600 families, I’m the one who visits with other adults while my kids play (and have donuts) with the other kids.

 

[bpbasilphx]

The Melkite parish I attend (like most Eastern Churches in this neck of the woods) is small, and has only one Sunday Liturgy.

My own personal feeling is that if the parish is so large as to require 5 Masses on Sunday, maybe you need to split the parish.

 

[Georgia]

You are right; it could be time for splitting parishes in our area of suburban Atlanta.

The issue that concerns me is that we don’t reinforce one another with the binding together that I experienced earlier in my life. People pile into a packed church and bail out as soon as they can. We are weaker when we lose community.

People leave and tell stories of how they got much more personal contact in their new churches. It is a shame. They leave Rome on nothing more than emotion, but that is powerful.

 

[OneTrueCathApos]

You are right; it could be time for splitting parishes in our area of suburban Atlanta.

The issue that concerns me is that we don’t reinforce one another with the binding together that I experienced earlier in my life. People pile into a packed church and bail out as soon as they can. We are weaker when we lose community.

People leave and tell stories of how they got much more personal contact in their new churches. It is a shame. They leave Rome on nothing more than emotion, but that is powerful.[/QUOT

My family lives in Atlanta, and my nephew just received Confirmation there. There were 98 kids receiving. **98

that is a huge number at one church.

 

[dawgfan]

You are right; it could be time for splitting parishes in our area of suburban Atlanta.

The issue that concerns me is that we don’t reinforce one another with the binding together that I experienced earlier in my life. People pile into a packed church and bail out as soon as they can. We are weaker when we lose community.

People leave and tell stories of how they got much more personal contact in their new churches. It is a shame. They leave Rome on nothing more than emotion, but that is powerful.

Not sure which suburb you live in but I felt kind of the same when I lived in Gwinnett Co. I did have my small groups that I could hang out with and get to know better but whenever I went to mass, I rarely saw anyone I knew because it was so big and had multiple masses. Now I live waaaay outside the ATL and go to a much smaller parish. Its like night and day. I know alot of the members and it feels like a family. Its not always perfect. I sometimes miss the various ministries that a large parish and the diverse membership.

***also don’t assume that just because JWs do alot of activities together that its because they feel all like family - sometimes they do what they do out of obligation

 

[Georgia]

I am in Gwinnett very near Fulton and Forsyth Counties.

Sure, I would prefer smaller parishes if that were possible. The shortage of priests means my diocese, like many others, may or may not be staffed for an increase. I don’t pretend to know on that one.

My concern is that people are drawn to those with whom they interact. Passing the same person on the way in and in the rush to beat traffic on the way out leads to isolation. That means some people will be more easily taken away when they are offered shiny spiritual trash.

The poor JW who left the church told me that she started by talking to someone who offered her Bible study. It had to be they typical JW stuff wherein a member met with her and presented the canned lessons. If I could know, I would bet she thought she found a friend and the rest is tragic history.

If she had been more closely tied to her parish, I wonder if she could have been led onto the shoals of that religious shipwreck.

 

[dawgfan]

If she had been more closely tied to her parish, I wonder if she could have been led onto the shoals of that religious shipwreck.

There’s too many factors that play a part in someone’s conversion to a different religion to just single that out (family, personal issues, education, etc). I’m positive that the JWs have members from small churches that may have once been active in their congregations.

 

[Ruthie]

My own personal feeling is that if the parish is so large as to require 5 Masses on Sunday, maybe you need to split the parish.

Well, mine has 5.

Lemme see - if my parish split, would Father have to travel to 4 new churches every Sunday? Where would the $$ to build the new churches come from? Would our parish office be able to stay open full-time? Would my parish still have daily Mass? What would happen to our daily Adoration?

Well, obviously, I think there are great benefits to being part of a big parish. Perhaps I’ll volunteer to help with coffee & donuts in the hall after Masses, to help with fellowshipping.

God bless all our parishes,

Ruthie

 

[SimonArizona]

I had a couple of JWs by the house today, one a former Catholic, and that led to a lively discussion at our house. The JWs and members of Christians outside the Church have one huge advantage over us, smaller congregations.

The first 35 years or so of my life, I was in a fundamentalist Baptist church. Everyone knew everyone else and I have always thought that was a bonding experience. When I made my last visit to my old church before converting, I was living out of state and was home for vacation. I went to a pew, sat down, and someone came over to tell me it was where Mrs. XXXX normally sat. The same thing happened twice more before I found an acceptable seat.

That would never happen at our church. The Mass is always packed and there are five per Sunday. People attend at different times and, like me, at different churches, depending on my work schedule putting me on the job when I could not make Mass at my church.

The tight bonding from smaller groups seems, based on my experience, to keep people in the fold. People are recognized for not missing a Sunday in years. There are names, faces, common interests and whatever. Our church is over 3,000 people and I have been there for over ten years. I never miss Mass, but I could not name more than a handful of people there.

Maybe I am wrong, but I think the number of mass times and the large congregations leads to anonymous church members who are ripe for the picking by JWs and others who offer friendship and close ties. Our people are religiously alone. If I could change one thing about being this side of the Tiber, it would be that we could have much tighter congregations so we could more effectively resist sheep-stealing.

What you have is far more valuable. You have all the Saints that have gone before you at your disposal.

 

[love4mary]

When I converted, I told my RCIA director that I did not want to be a “Sunday Christian”, the ones who fore fill their Sunday Obligation (Man how I hate that word,how about OPPORTUNITY:thumbsup: ) and then go home.

Does you parish have a Ministries Day? this would be a great time to look over the various ministries your parish offers and find the one that best suits your Time-Treasures-Talents. Joining a ministry is not only a great way to support your parish needs, but it also provides a great opportunity to meet parishioners.

Ask your priest what needs to be done in your parish, which ministries are in need,I am sure he can find something for you to do.

 

[Ravyn_Guiliani]

***also don’t assume that just because JWs do alot of activities together that its because they feel all like family - sometimes they do what they do out of obligation

they also do it because it is a fear-based cult that shuns even family members if they decide to leave. JWs practice isolation, insulation and demonization of everyone else who is not a JW–accept for the purposes of converting new members.

been there, done that for 34 years.

I agree that there should be a happy medium somewhere between love-bombing and being made to feel alone. I think for the CC it comes down to the priest shortage. If we had more priests there would be more smaller parishes formed.