Karate- compatible with Catholicism?

[Vittorio23]

I’m just curious, knowing that there is such a strong debate on the issue of Yoga, whether or not people find the practice of Karate to be compatible with Catholicism. It is not generally considered an offensive, but a defensive, and is considered by many to be an art form. But I also know that many Karate forms are deeply routed in meditation and different traditions.

Thoughts?

 

[inthecloud]

I have practiced Aikido and Judo and I even if they have some basic Zen principles deeply corroborated by neurogology. The idea of perfection. The idea of repetition to make movement subconscious. The idea of emptiness in the mind as the best way to act in combat, avoding making consious decisions.
They are based in Zen but they are not incompatible with christianty. Some dojos practice pre and after practice meditation, my Akido instructor always (and he was a seven day adventist) my Judo instructor sometimes and he is catholic. And this meditation, is done by focusing on breathing and the hara. The concept of ki is also Zen based. But most of those concept also have scientific foundations that are secular. As long as you do not adopt the Zen metafisics and ideas like reincarnation, agnosticism or monism I can´t see any trouble. Maybe reading books on Zen and Catholicism will help you indentify any conflict areas. I reading Thomas Merton’s one but he is not orthodox on the matter. Most martial arts instructors have watered down the Zen aspects of asian martial arts anyways. And also remember, not all martials arts are asian or have Zen principles. European martial arts are secular. Philipino martial arts hav a Catholic or Islamic therminology and Indonesian martial arts are Islamic.
About the morality read the Cathesism on self defense.

 

[Sr_Sally]

I think it depends a lot on the instructors and the age of the participants. My ds has taken karate for years at a studio that teaches no meditation or zen-like practices. In fact, the young men who are the teaching assistants are also Catholic. My sister takes a different form of martial arts and her instructor talks a lot about chi (sp?) and meditational practices. My sister was kind of getting into this for awhile and has thankfully backed away some. But to tell the truth, I think a 10yo boy in that same class would have paid no attention to that part of the lesson.

 

[LDNCatholic]

I teach martial arts. My class does not involve chi/ki/prana, or any mention whatsoever of mysticism. These mystical teachings to me, are against the very theory of martial arts, which should first and foremost be practical. Inthecloud is right, there are many forms of martial art, not all of them have their roots in the East, and those that do may not necessarily have any connection to religion. With the exception of the Wai Kru ritual some perform before fights Muay Thai for example has about as much mystical content as Boxing (which, by the way is a very effective martial art).

God Bless

Peter

I’d also like to add that a lot of this ‘ki’ stuff (breaking boards, laying on a bed of nails, resisting attack, etc) is complete bull. If you hear too much jibber jabber about ‘ki’ in a martial arts class that should be your signal to start making for the door.

 

[inthecloud]

Judo, Jujustsu and most modern sport styles of Karate have very little religious stuff there. Aikido, Ninjutsu in the other hand and any japanese sword art are very religious. Mixing Shinto with Zen. Shaolin Kung Fu is very Zen like, Zen Buddism was also developed in the Shaolin monastery. So are the most ultratraditional non sport like styles of Karate. Tai chi chuan, Pa kua Chuan are Taoist styles of kung fu. Wu Shu is a style of kung fu developed during comunism and purged of the religious stuff. The Korean arts like Tang Soo Do and Tae Kwon Do are very sportlike now and devoid of most religion. Hwarang Do is very buddist. So that gives you a good idea.

 

[LDNCatholic]

Judo, Jujustsu and most modern sport styles of Karate have very little religious stuff there. Aikido, Ninjutsu in the other hand and any japanese sword art are very religious. Mixing Shinto with Zen. Shaolin Kung Fu is very Zen like, Zen Buddism was also developed in the Shaolin monastery. So are the most ultratraditional non sport like styles of Karate. Tai chi chuan, Pa kua Chuan are Taoist styles of kung fu. Wu Shu is a style of kung fu developed during comunism and purged of the religious stuff. The Korean arts like Tang Soo Do and Tae Kwon Do are very sportlike now and devoid of most religion. Hwarang Do is very buddist. So that gives you a good idea.

I’d like to note that a few of these styles are ‘reconstructed’. By this I mean they died out centuries ago or were never practiced as a single art, but recently people have come out of the woodwork claiming to come from some secret lineage. These ‘arts’ tend to rely heavily on mystical stuff to make it seem ancient and legitimate.

 

[LDNCatholic]

Too late to edit but I’ve just noted that thats also a pretty good description of Wicca/neopaganism

 

[JimR-OCDS]

I’m just curious, knowing that there is such a strong debate on the issue of Yoga, whether or not people find the practice of Karate to be compatible with Catholicism. It is not generally considered an offensive, but a defensive, and is considered by many to be an art form. But I also know that many Karate forms are deeply routed in meditation and different traditions.

Thoughts?

Most Karate that is taught in the US, is American style martial arts and when I was involved, there was no religious aspect to it at all. Except that my instructor was a Christian and held optional Bible studies at the dojo.

All that being said, karate, is no different than taking up boxing. You bring your Christian faith into it.

Personally, I think American Karate in the past, was useless for self defense and was generally too expensive. People were paying $70-$100 per month, when they could’ve gone to a boxing gym and paid $10-$20 per month and come out better prepared to defend themselves and in much better physical condition.

Since the Ultimate Fight Championships came to be, and no Karate or Kung Fu expert has even come close to winning, many Karate schools have folded or gone into the mix martial arts.

Anyway, hope this helps.

Jim

 

[inthecloud]

For street combat, Muay Thai or western boxing combined with some Greco-roman wrestling/Jujutsu/Judo/Sambo skills is the best combo. Most fights (about 85% or more according to the FBI) after a few blows have been exchange end up in a crunch and in the floor. Grappling skills are vital. And knowing to take hits and lash out full contact.

 

[scottm]

I’m just curious, knowing that there is such a strong debate on the issue of Yoga, whether or not people find the practice of Karate to be compatible with Catholicism. It is not generally considered an offensive, but a defensive, and is considered by many to be an art form. But I also know that many Karate forms are deeply routed in meditation and different traditions.

Thoughts?

www.martialartsplanet.com/forums

This question has been asked several times over the years. The unanimous answer is “yes, you can be a Catholic and still do karate – or anything else.” And yes, there are Catholics and other Christians on that forum.

 

[quiet52]

The so-called mystical or religious aspects aside, I think parents need to observe the sensei (teacher) and the class carefully. My daughter was drawn to karate as a kindergartener because of cartoons and action figures – she was a tomboy. I finally relented and enrolled her in class when she was eight. The discipline was helpful – and she gained some confidence in herself because the sensei complimented her a lot. In practice, kicks, etc. were usually done in the air toward imaginary enemies, and the students would be helped as to form, using strength, etc. But then there was sparring. Yes, they’d wear pads on their legs. But it didn’t feel right with me when my daughter was complimented for knocking even older/bigger kids down during the sparring … but I didn’t say anything. But one day the sensei taught them a move in which they would use fingers to claw the eyes out of their opponent. The sensei complimented my daughter on the strength in her hands and fingers (backed up by strength emanating from her back and shoulders). He then had them partner up. My daughter fainted. I took her home – and she said she never wanted to return (and of course I didn’t make her). She had nightmares about hurting others.
The sensei may not have intended to specifically preach against Christian values, but in my mind, my daughter’s experience WAS very unChristian. The sensei failed to teach that these moves were for defense in the event of danger, only. And even if he had taught this message effectively, kids that young simply can’t handle all these thoughts about danger and violence. I wish I had been more prayerful and discerning about God’s will back then. I think if we had seen Jesus in the room, He would have said “STOP THIS NOW. This is not about love.”
When my daughter was a teen, we talked about the importance of safety and self-defense – and yelling at the top of our lungs, and running during perceived danger.

 

[LDNCatholic]

The so-called mystical or religious aspects aside, I think parents need to observe the sensei (teacher) and the class carefully. My daughter was drawn to karate as a kindergartener because of cartoons and action figures – she was a tomboy. I finally relented and enrolled her in class when she was eight. The discipline was helpful – and she gained some confidence in herself because the sensei complimented her a lot. In practice, kicks, etc. were usually done in the air toward imaginary enemies, and the students would be helped as to form, using strength, etc. But then there was sparring. Yes, they’d wear pads on their legs. But it didn’t feel right with me when my daughter was complimented for knocking even older/bigger kids down during the sparring … but I didn’t say anything. But one day the sensei taught them a move in which they would use fingers to claw the eyes out of their opponent. The sensei complimented my daughter on the strength in her hands and fingers (backed up by strength emanating from her back and shoulders). He then had them partner up. My daughter fainted. I took her home – and she said she never wanted to return (and of course I didn’t make her). She had nightmares about hurting others.
The sensei may not have intended to specifically preach against Christian values, but in my mind, my daughter’s experience WAS very unChristian. The sensei failed to teach that these moves were for defense in the event of danger, only. And even if he had taught this message effectively, kids that young simply can’t handle all these thoughts about danger and violence. I wish I had been more prayerful and discerning about God’s will back then. I think if we had seen Jesus in the room, He would have said “STOP THIS NOW. This is not about love.”
When my daughter was a teen, we talked about the importance of safety and self-defense – and yelling at the top of our lungs, and running during perceived danger.

So was your problem that the instructor didnt teach that the techniques were last resort only, or with the general violent nature of the class?