Kentucky clerk seeks Supreme Court help to deny gay marriage licenses

[Cinjoy]

Yes we do know His opinion, its in the Bible and, the official teachings of the Catholic Church:tsktsk:

 

[Son_of_Niall]

Judge Who Jailed Kim Davis Ordered Students Who Opposed Homosexuality to Be Re-Educated

ASHLAND, Ky. — Following yesterday’s jailing of a county clerk for stating that it is not possible for her to obey an order to issue marriage licenses to homosexuals against God’s law, it is now being noted that the same federal judge also once ordered Kentucky students to be re-educated about homosexuality despite their objections.

In 2003, the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU)—the same group that filed suit against Rowan County Clerk Kim Davis—sued the Boyd County Board of Education to force it to agree to allow a “gay-straight” alliance club to meet at Boyd County High School. A number of parents had strongly opposed the group following its initial formation, with approximately 70 attending a school council meeting to speak out on the matter

.

christiannews.net/2015/09/04/judge-who-jailed-kim-davis-ordered-students-who-opposed-homosexuality-to-be-re-educated/

 

[Thorolfr]

Yes we do know His opinion, its in the Bible and, the official teachings of the Catholic Church:tsktsk:

But some other churches think that God has a different opinion than the one taught by the Catholic Church.

 

[JonNC]

Not at all. I said that the issue was not that she was Christian. The issue was that she refused to do her job.

Who decides what her job is? The people who elected her.

Jon

 

[JonNC]

But some other churches think that God has a different opinion than the one taught by the Catholic Church.

Actually, on this issue, some churches think God recently changed His mind. Unless someone has evidence that Jesus, in Mark 10, was only reflecting cultural norms of His day.

"But from the beginning of creation, ‘God made them male and female.’ 7‘Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and hold fast to his wife,a 8and the two shall become one flesh.’ So they are no longer two but one flesh. 9What therefore God has joined together, let not man separate.”

From the beginning of creation!!! He made them male and female. A man shall hold fast to his wife!!! Christ here confirms what marriage is.

Jon

 

[Sy_Noe]

But some other churches think that God has a different opinion than the one taught by the Catholic Church.

Exactly. And not Catholic of course or LCMS or some others. But some other faiths now have come to an understanding that a man clinging to his wife is just one such example of marriage. It’s really not hard to learn of different understandings that various faiths have come to understand and evolve on about Sodom and homosexuality and marriage if one truly has a sincere interest in learning about these faiths without merely criticizing and judging them and placing litmus tests upon them. There is a wealth of information out there about various faiths and why they have come to believe as they now do. One thing I think is these faiths are more inclined not to put God in a closed box and are more open to the possibility of human finite understanding of an infinite God evolving over time. I know for example the United Church of Christ says God is still speaking.

 

[Faithdancer]

Why not just issue the “marriage” licenses? They are meaningless anyway. Might as well issue them Bazooka Joe bubblegum wrappers.

 

[JonNC]

Exactly. And not Catholic of course or LCMS or some others. But some other faiths now have come to an understanding that a man clinging to his wife is just one such example of marriage. It’s really not hard to learn of different understandings that various faiths have come to understand and evolve on about Sodom and homosexuality and marriage if one truly has a sincere interest in learning about these faiths without merely criticizing and judging them and placing litmus tests upon them. There is a wealth of information out there about various faiths and why they have come to believe as they now do. One thing I think is these faiths are more inclined not to put God in a closed box and are more open to the possibility of human finite understanding of an infinite God evolving over time. I know for example the United Church of Christ says God is still speaking.

No criticism or judgement here, but a question:
Is there evidence or an example anywhere in the first 1900 years of church history of any speculation within the church that Jesus, when He reiterated Genesis, was only citing an example of what He considered a marriage?

Jon

 

[robsully]

One question from the side-lines. What is the Catholic objection to homosexuality?

 

[ltwin]

Why not just issue the “marriage” licenses? They are meaningless anyway. Might as well issue them Bazooka Joe bubblegum wrappers.

Another commenter said the clerk’s issue is that her name is on the marriage license. Apparently, she wants the state to take clerks’ names off the licenses so they are able to issue them without any sense of endorsing the marriage.

 

[Faithdancer]

Another commenter said the clerk’s issue is that her name is on the marriage license. Apparently, she wants the state to take clerks’ names off the licenses so they are able to issue them without any sense of endorsing the marriage.

I understand her sentiment. It would be hard for her to come to an understanding that she is simply rubber stamping a farce.

I’ve wondered what my own reaction will be if and when a same sex couple is introduced to me as “married.” I think my best path will be to say nothing at all.

 

[Sy_Noe]

No criticism or judgement here, but a question:
Is there evidence or an example anywhere in the first 1900 years of church history of any speculation within the church that Jesus, when He reiterated Genesis, was only citing an example of what He considered a marriage?

Jon

There is no actual full proof evidence that the first 100 or 1900 yrs got it all right. Nor that the next 1900 will. Not without faith. And many Christians do not solely rely on Scripture. Faith and reason play a large part in what people believe. I’m not about to debate this. We could go on and on and neither of us can prove to the other that our faiths are right. But if you’re truly interested in showing tolerance of those who disagree with you on faith matters, here’s just a small start of their faith. There of course is so much more out there about various faiths. But I don’t have the time to search it all for you right now. But blessings on your faith journey,

religioustolerance.org/ashford01.htm

 

[twopekinguys]

I am all for her standing her ground, but, I have to wonder about the current cliff she is standing on.

Let me play the devil’s advocate here for a minute.

OK, she doesn’t want to issue same sex marriage licenses based on Biblical teachings. However, as clerk, she has to record, and affix her name/seal to divorces that are filed in her office. How about divorced people getting remarried? The Bible speaks very clearly on divorce.

She has also issued a marriage license to a “transgendered” woman, and a man. Where does that stand in the face of scripture?

Also, is she applying her Biblical beliefs toward people that have had children out of wedlock? How about those that have been cohabitating? Is she asking them if they repented of their sins before issuing the license?

I think her actions, like those I’ve shown put her in a poor light for a religious exemption.

I also don’t think the people representing her are very good at getting all of their ducks in a row, if you know what I mean. They just seem very inept to me.

I applaud her for her stand, I just don’t think it’s being handled the best way on her, and her lawyers end.

 

[JonNC]

There is no actual full proof evidence that the first 100 or 1900 yrs got it all right. Nor that the next 1900 will. Not without faith. And many Christians do not solely rely on Scripture. Faith and reason play a large part in what people believe. I’m not about to debate this. We could go on and on and neither of us can prove to the other that our faiths are right. But if you’re truly interested in showing tolerance of those who disagree with you on faith matters, here’s just a small start of their faith. There of course is so much more out there about various faiths. But I don’t have the time to search it all for you right now. But blessings on your faith journey,

religioustolerance.org/ashford01.htm

And this is probably the wrong thread for it, so I will close with the thought that if there is no evidence to support the claim, we must conclude that the clear meaning of the text, throughout scripture the same, and taught through the history of the Church, is its intention.
May you be blessed as well.

Jon

 

[Sy_Noe]

And this is probably the wrong thread for it, so I will close with the thought that if there is no evidence to support the claim, we must conclude that the clear meaning of the text, throughout scripture the same, and taught through the history of the Church, is its intention.
May you be blessed as well.

Jon

Thank you Jon. I of course don’t see your concrete “evidence”. I can when I get right down to it, only see thru a lens of faith. Faith in the end is what brings all of us to our conclusions. But then I may not take the Bible as literally as you do either. And that’s okay with me. I respect your faith and brand of Lutheranism even though I may not share it. As obviously if I were Lutheran, I would be ELCA. But not only because of marriage. But indeed now back to the KY clerk…

 

[Sy_Noe]

I am all for her standing her ground, but, I have to wonder about the current cliff she is standing on.

Let me play the devil’s advocate here for a minute.

OK, she doesn’t want to issue same sex marriage licenses based on Biblical teachings. However, as clerk, she has to record, and affix her name/seal to divorces that are filed in her office. How about divorced people getting remarried? The Bible speaks very clearly on divorce.

She has also issued a marriage license to a “transgendered” woman, and a man. Where does that stand in the face of scripture?

Also, is she applying her Biblical beliefs toward people that have had children out of wedlock? How about those that have been cohabitating? Is she asking them if they repented of their sins before issuing the license?

I think her actions, like those I’ve shown put her in a poor light for a religious exemption.

I also don’t think the people representing her are very good at getting all of their ducks in a row, if you know what I mean. They just seem very inept to me.

I applaud her for her stand, I just don’t think it’s being handled the best way on her, and her lawyers end.

I would argue no fault divorce has changed marriage. She is being represented by Liberty Counsel, a fat right wing conservative group. It is run by a man who has connections to the late Jerry Falwell’s Liberty University. Last night on MSNBC’s All In with Chris Hayes, the attorney repeatedly refused to say how this case is helping with fundraising.

 

[Sy_Noe]

Do you think that she sees herself as a martyr? Or more of a conscientious objector? It’s difficult for me to tell.

Great question. That’s a tough one as it seems it can be a fine line between the 2. I think only 1 person could give us the answer and that would be Kim Davis herself. It is difficult for me to tell as well and anything I could say would only be a guess. She does seem to me to be certain that there is no room for either herself or her faith to possibly be wrong. But it could be more of an objection based on private opinion. I’d be interested though in how would you differentiate between the 2, ComplineSanFran? I know it seems some are making her out to be a martyr whether that is her intent or not. And last night her attorney was on MSNBC’s show All In with Chris Hayes and tried to compare her to Martin Luther King and I’ve seen on CAF people comparing her to St Thomas More and to Rosa Parks.

 

[Son_of_Niall]

BREAKING: Kim Davis ordered released from jail

GRAYSON, KY, September 8, 2015 (LifeSiteNews) - Kim Davis, the Rowan County clerk who refused to issue marriage licenses to same-sex couples based on her religious beliefs, has been ordered released from jail, according to news reports.

Davis had been jailed on “contempt of court” by U.S. District Judge David Bunning on Thursday.

But today, Bunning ordered Davis - who has become a symbol of “judicial tyranny,” in the words of both Ted Cruz and Mike Huckabee - to be released, with the condition that she not “interfere in any way” with the issuance of same-sex “marriage” licenses.

lifesitenews.com/news/breaking-kim-davis-ordered-released-from-jail