Killing of the Old Testament

  • Thread starter Thread starter CHCL
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
C

CHCL

Guest
Hello! This is my first time here (although I have read this site for a long time).

Anyway, I have debated with atheists over this past year and they are always bringing up the “Moral” killing in the old testament.
Some they mention are Judges 21 10-24 , Numbers 31 7-18 , Deuteronomy 20 16, 2 Samuel 12 11-14 besides others.

Well, how do I respond? I “could” respond in my own words, but I would like to know the teaching of the Catholic Church first… Thanks and God bless!
 
jimmyakin.com/2007/02/hard_sayings_of.html

That link goes over various passages of this nature which are difficult to understand within the context of contemporary society.

There are others who are far more knowledgeable on the subject that me, so I’ll let them give a better explanation.
 
ProdglArchitect said:
jimmyakin.com/2007/02/hard_sayings_of.html

That link goes over various passages of this nature which are difficult to understand within the context of contemporary society.

There are others who are far more knowledgeable on the subject that me, so I’ll let them give a better explanation.
Click to expand...
In addition to this, I heard from another Catholic podcaster who has a lot of ancient history study say in regard to the killing of the women and children:

The woman and children would fight too, especially the children. If they were not killed, they would grow up to seek revenge for their fathers, similar to how the terrorists in the middle east today will use children as soldiers as well. It’s a harsh reality. These children were not babies, but rather like 8, 9, 10 years old.
 
That is an excellent article by Jimmy Akin.

Basically, God was preparing the Israelites to be the people from which the Messiah, the Second Person of the Blessed Trinity would be born! He could not allow them to mingle with the pagans or intermarry with them.

When the Israelites disobeyed the Lord by intermarrying and not wiping out the pagans, trouble ensued. (Think of Jezebel, who worshipped Baal and was married to Ahaz, an Israelite.) Finally, that showdown took place on Mount Carmel, with the prophet Elijah slaying the prophets of Baal.

Please remember that the pagans took part in temple prostitution and in sacrificing their infants to the fire. The Lord needed to have these practices wiped out. A holy people was needed, who worshipped one God and obeyed his commandments.
 
The Catholic Study Bible I have puts out a different view. That view being that, all the violence is rhetoric and not meant to be viewed historically.

That is to say, at the time such books were written, Israel was at its lowest political and military power. They were meant to be inspiring; that is, to say, “look here! God can do this and more.” It’s not a question of historical accuracy, it’s a view at how dedicated God is to his people Israel.

Places like Ai and Jericho, according to this Catholic Study Bible, didn’t even have much habitation at the time of the alleged sackings, let alone a competitive one.

You have to understand the audience the book was written for. Broken, beaten, exiled; these writings were an inspiration to see the power of the Lord and what he was willing to do for them in the past (and what he will do for them again if they only follow his ways).

And if none of that’s true, God isn’t bound by our concepts of good and evil, anyways. There is no such thing as good outside what God decides is good. One cannot say “God cannot do this, because it is not good.” What God does IS good.
 
the answer to WHY is to be found in the Book of Wisdom. Therein Solomon explains why God has Israel destroy the cities and peoples which Israel inherited.

“For those ancient inhabitants of thy holy land, whom thou didst abhor, Because they did works hateful to thee by their sorceries, and** wicked sacrifices**, And those merciless murderers of their own children, and eaters of men’s bowels, and devourers of blood from the midst of thy consecration, And those parents sacrificing with their own hands helpless souls, it was thy will to destroy by the hands of our parents, That the land which of all is most dear to thee might receive a worthy colony of the children of God.” Wisdom 12: 3 - 7

So the reasons seem to be witchcraft & evil sacrifices, as well as human sacrifice. The drinking of blood? Also sodomy or cannibalism (depending on your interpretation). Finally the repetition of children being killed, by parents, might be a reference to abortion. Amazing, a possible reference to abortion in the Bible!
 
I wonder what would had been the Christians’ reaction if these verses were in the Qur’an…
 
The first general argument about the killing in the OT is that God is sovereign and can do anything he wants. He does not owe an explanation to anybody, although that explanation is nevertheless given (generally) in those places where the death penalty is indicated.

An associated idea is to demonstrate the “justice” side of God, in contrast to the “mercy” side of God.

Now, at this moment, I can’t remember if it was the Gnostics (probably) or the Arians who disregarded the OT for just this reason.

Be assured that this general attitude towards the OT and God in it is a heresy and should be ignored. It is another stumbling block for those who are disposed not to believe.
 
Robin_des_Bois said:
I wonder what would had been the Christians’ reaction if these verses were in the Qur’an…
Click to expand...
This difference between the Bible and the Qur’an is the Bible gave us a Savior who took on our sin and preached love of neighbor. The Qur’an still operates on the ancient tribal societal norm of vengeance. Read the article by Jimmy Akin posted below. It gives a pretty good explanation.

The Qur’an was written well after the New Testament and fulfillment of the OT by Jesus.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top