Kissing boyfriend

[JimG]

Is that an infallible statement?

No, it’s only backed up by my own personal moral certitude.

Vowed religious women live for years in community before making binding vows, and even then can be released from them. I’m reasonably, morally certain that God knows the state of this young woman’s mind even better than she herself, and that he is not prone to lay on undue burdens.

 

[ElizabethAnne]

PureGrace,

I am glad that you are taking time to evaluate the promise you made as well as your desire to change it. Like others I think you should speak with a priest.

There is certainly nothing wrong with chaste kissing before marriage. That said, I know some people who waited for engagement or marriage to kiss their fiance/spouse. It was something they felt called to, and I think it is truly beautiful.

I am so glad that my husband and I waited to have sex and that’s something very special that we share! Sometimes I wish that he and I also shared our first kiss together. When you think about it, the purpose of dating is to find that person you’ll spend the rest of your life with. And there will be plenty of time in all those years for kissing!

Just something to consider. God bless.

 

[FredM]

Hi,

Have you heard of the singer Janelle? janelle.cc/

Somewhere on her website is a link to a sample of one of her chasity talks in which she talks about not kissing her fiance until their wedding night. I thought it was pretty impressive stuff (but I’m old and easily impressed lol). You might find it helpful and supportive if you decide to continue with your promise to yourself.

Good luck and God Bless you.

Fred

 

[JimG]

A clarification: certainly there is nothing at all wrong with making such a commitment and intending to keep it. My only point is that such a promise or commitment (and made at such a young age) is not of such gravity that forgoing it would be sinful. It would be rather like giving up candy for Lent. It’s something voluntary, not binding under pain of sin.

 

[FredM]

Comparing her promise to God to giving up candy for Lent seems to me to be trivializing it.

All promises made by teens are made at a young age. She is old enough to get married so she is old enough to make a promise to God.

Ultimately it is only God that can properly release her from a promise made to him. Prayer and the help of a priest, as many suggested, seems like the path to take.

Keep in mind that the meat of the issue is whether it is sinful to break a promise made to God. The content matter of the promise doesn’t matter since there is no prohibition against kissing.

Let’s support her in keeping her promise until it is complete (her wedding) or she is certain that God has released her from it.

Fred

 

[kage_ar]

1. Talk to your Priest.
2. Once had a family friend, at her wedding - (not Catholic but Protestant) - after the “you may kiss the bride” kiss, she turned to her father and said “dad, my wedding gift to you is that you just witnessed my first kiss”. I always admired that young woman, and if you choose to KEEP your promise, it would be a beautiful thing in this day and age.
3. A boyfriend who would treasure such a promise would be in the “marriage material” category most likely.
4. See your Priest.

 

[Kendy]

Just remember kiddo, there are kisses and than there are kisses. Chaste kisses and what we used to call French Kisses. Some kisses, unless you are married, can lead to more trouble than you need.

Seriously, I have no idea what an unchaste kiss would be?

 

[JimG]

Comparing her promise to God to giving up candy for Lent seems to me to be trivializing it.

All promises made by teens are made at a young age. She is old enough to get married so she is old enough to make a promise to God.

Ultimately it is only God that can properly release her from a promise made to him. Prayer and the help of a priest, as many suggested, seems like the path to take.

Keep in mind that the meat of the issue is whether it is sinful to break a promise made to God. The content matter of the promise doesn’t matter since there is no prohibition against kissing.

Let’s support her in keeping her promise until it is complete (her wedding) or she is certain that God has released her from it.

Fred

I don’t mean to trivialize it. Giving up candy for Lent is not the same as giving up kissing until marriage. Still, both are promises to God made by an individual. Yet, God is not a signatory to the contract. Just because we make a promise to God doesn’t mean that God authorizes, ratifies, agrees with, or expects the promise to be kept, or even that it is part of His plan for our life.

So how can God “release her” from a promise to which He was not a party? Did her promise bind Him? No.

She should follow her own best judgment in the matter.

Finally, it is not sinful to break a promise to God unless the promise is made in a formal and binding context, such as religious vows. (After all, some ‘promises to God’ may be mistaken, errors in judgment, or even sinful in themselves, such as a person who promises to kill as many atheists as possible for the glory of God. Now that would be a promise to God that should be broken!)

 

[FredM]

Jim,

She believes it was a valid and legitimate promise otherwise she wouldn’t have made it in the first place nor would she have any qualms about breaking it. By your logic God didn’t accept her offering and doesn’t care what she does regarding it.

God is God and can therefore release her from anything he wants. He could also desire that she continue in that promise.

She should follow her conscience and not make a change if her conscience is doubtful, which may be best done by prayer and with help of a priest.

Relying on judgment alone is ok for math problems but more goes into a properly formed and informed catholic conscience.

If she resolves the matter with help of prayer and a priest she will have done it in a way that will serve as a model for her when she faces other dilemmas.

Fred

 

[JimG]

Jim,

She believes it was a valid and legitimate promise otherwise she wouldn’t have made it in the first place nor would she have any qualms about breaking it. By your logic God didn’t accept her offering and doesn’t care what she does regarding it.

Here is what she said:

Quote:
“A while back (about two or two and a half years ago) I was inspired by someone who said that they knew someone who had decided not to kiss anyone until the day they got married. I thought that was cool. So I promised God that I would not kiss a boy until my wedding day.” Now, she doesn’t go into great detail, but that just doesn’t strike me as a solemn promise.

God is God and can therefore release her from anything he wants. He could also desire that she continue in that promise.

Yes. And just how will she know that God has released her, or desire her to continue, unless she receives private revelations?

She should follow her conscience and not make a change if her conscience is doubtful, which may be best done by prayer and with help of a priest.

Now that I can completely agree with.

My concern is that to give too much weight to this promise, even to the point of fearing God’s judgment for breaking it, verges a little on scrupulosity, and as many posts on this forum make clear, scrupulosity can be a real burden to many people.

So I wouldn’t fault her for keeping to the promise if she determines that it is to her spiritual benefit. (And yes, a priest can help with that.) Neither would I condemn her for deciding that it was a promise made in haste which need not be strictly adhered to.

 

[Cristiano]

I just see a big red flag coming up.

Just understand that even if you are not committing a sin by breaking the promise you might find yoursel in a pickle because kissing can be easily controlled by lust and that can be a grave matter. I think that before you get the approval from this forum to go and kiss you boyfriend you should follow the suggestion of talking to a priest about breaking a promise.

When you are talking to a priest take the opportunity of talking about the dangers of lust and ask him for references about the “theology of the body”. Your boyfriend and you can wait a little bit longer until you fully understand what are all the implications associated with physical expressions of love. I know that there is a lot of easy stuff to read and understand but I am not familiar with it. You could ask for more information in the parenting part of this forum.

One last question:*** Have you talked to your parents about the whole thing?***

 

[FredM]

Here is what she said:

Quote:
" So I promised God ."

Now, she doesn’t go into great detail, but that just doesn’t strike me as a solemn promise.

…If it isn’t then all promises are worthless

And just how will she know that God has released her, or desire her to continue, unless she receives private revelations?

a) pray
b) talk to a priest
c) follow conscience (if clear). If still not clear repeat “a” and “b”.

Also, this is one of those “first time” things that once done cannot be undone. I wouldn’t want her to regret doing it later. So, better to not “do it” if any uncertainty.

But, either way, what a wonderful young woman this is.

 

[candidcatholic]

Dear PureGrace,
I think there’s been some good posts in response to your question. However, I might have some additional insight that can help you make your decision. More than two and a half years ago I was in the same situation as your boyfriend. Shortly after I had begun courting a young woman she informed me that she had made a commitment to God not to kiss until she was married. In her case however it was in response to a previous relationship that had gone sour partly because of the physical sinfulness that had progressed from kissing. I wasnt at all happy to hear the news. I was actually pretty upset; this was my first girlfriend ever, and now I wasnt even going to be able to kiss her. I can’t even remember exactly how I reacted initially, but I think I was probably much more upset than I let this girl know. But I started to pray about it; I really liked this girl, and I didnt want to make any dumb mistakes for selfish reasons that would screw things up. In my prayers I realized that I should accept this commitment that she had made; to ask her to dishonor it felt like asking her to dishonor God. I still felt like a victim, like I was being forced to suffer for the transgressions of a lustful former boyfriend/relationship. However over time these feelings waned and I matured. As I grew to love this girl I realized that God could only bless us for staying chaste and for staying true to her commitment. I realized what a thing of beauty it could become if we truly offered it up.
I submit to you that the only purpose of dating or courting is to find your future spouse. If the boy that you are beginning this relationship with does not have this understanding of dating then it’s obvious why he would be upset. Even if his intentions are such I can certainly relate to what he is feeling. From what you have shared it sounds like he is respecting you and your commitment. I think this is a good sign, and your unwillingness to thoughtlessly snap your commitment to God is admirable. I can honestly say that after over two and a half years that we have been dating/courting (we are still happily together), her commitment (which then became ours) to not kiss before marriage has only been a blessing. It has only helped our efforts to stay chaste, and it has not hindered our intimacy or romance as a couple (in the chaste senses obviously). Do I think it’s wrong to kiss before marriage? No. Do I still sometimes wish I could kiss her? Definately. Do I regret the decision to respect her commitment? No. I’m definately looking forward to kissing her on our wedding day, and I know it’ll be awesome because we waited. Although, I should add that I haven’t proposed yet so we aren’t a complete success story, hahaha. But we’re both still in college now and I pray that this is the woman God has set apart for me, so it’s definately at least a partial success story I think. I certainly feel like our relationship is a success, and that we draw each other closer to God. I wish that same success for you, whether in this particular relationship or in the future. Keep God at the heart of things, and I’m sure that it will work out, and that He will guide you.
God Bless,
candidcatholic

 

[rwoehmke]

Seriously, I have no idea what an unchaste kiss would be?

Check out some of the kisses you see in modern movies. Like trying to suck the other persons tonsils out. Tongue kissing, also called French Kissing in the olden days was considered un-chaste unless by married couples preparing for the ultimate
intimate act. Chastity equals sexual behavior appropriate to ones state in life.
For dates or engaged couples kisses little different than one would give to a brother. sister, mother, grandpa would be considered chaste. Expressions of love and liking rather than lust and desire. That is old fashioned before Vatican II Catholic School training. So I am a neanderthal.

 

[rwoehmke]

Seriously, I have no idea what an unchaste kiss would be?

Check out some of the kisses you see in modern movies. Like trying to suck the other persons tonsils out. Tongue kissing, also called French Kissing in the olden days was considered un-chaste unless by married couples preparing for the ultimate
intimate act. Chastity equals sexual behavior appropriate to ones state in life.
For dates or engaged couples kisses little different than one would give to a brother. sister, mother, grandpa would be considered chaste. Expressions of love and liking rather than lust and desire. That is old fashioned before Vatican II Catholic School training. So I am a neanderthal.

 

[rwoehmke]

Seriously, I have no idea what an unchaste kiss would be?

Check out some of the kisses you see in modern movies. Like trying to suck the other persons tonsils out. Tongue kissing, also called French Kissing in the olden days was considered un-chaste unless by married couples preparing for the ultimate
intimate act. Chastity equals sexual behavior appropriate to ones state in life.
For dates or engaged couples kisses little different than one would give to a brother. sister, mother, grandpa would be considered chaste. Expressions of love and liking rather than lust and desire. That is old fashioned before Vatican II Catholic School training. So I am a neanderthal