kissing

[RachelKH]

I’ve been separated from my husband for 3 years and the divorce is almost final and I’ll be petitioning for annulment immediately.
I have friends that help me deal with the sadness and problems of ended marriage.
I love one of my friends – who he is, how he approaches life, his faith, his way of helping me face up to reality and follow Church rulings, his willingness to listen and share his struggles and mine, how he encourages me to continue daily Mass, Friday Adoration, monthly confession, etc.
We are more than just friends, but definitely not dating or even looking at the future and planning on anything since there is no freedom to go there yet until/if the Church says so. We are ‘best friends’ – special to each other but only friends.
But…
in hugging/holding each other while crying together one time, our usual kiss goodbye became more than just a quick kiss.
And since then we have kissed like than a couple other times.
But then we agreed to not kiss or hug at all as it can so easily lead to ‘more’ than we are free to do, more than people unmarried to each other may share.
And I want to know – if it could be kept to NOTHING more than kissing, in thoughts or actions, is kissing ok? And if not, does it need confessed? Right now we are holding true to no hugs or kisses, but I miss the touch, the kisses, the physical contact (not sex, especially, in this instance) that connects me with others, and if it is just kissing,can we go back to that?

 

[Aelred_Minor]

Until such time as an annulment is granted by the Church, your marriage is presumed valid. It seems to me any courtship with a new romantic partner should be delayed until you get that annulment (which you do not yet know if you will get at all).

 

[thistle]

I’ve been separated from my husband for 3 years and the divorce is almost final and I’ll be petitioning for annulment immediately.
I have friends that help me deal with the sadness and problems of ended marriage.
I love one of my friends – who he is, how he approaches life, his faith, his way of helping me face up to reality and follow Church rulings, his willingness to listen and share his struggles and mine, how he encourages me to continue daily Mass, Friday Adoration, monthly confession, etc.
We are more than just friends, but definitely not dating or even looking at the future and planning on anything since there is no freedom to go there yet until/if the Church says so. We are ‘best friends’ – special to each other but only friends.
But…
in hugging/holding each other while crying together one time, our usual kiss goodbye became more than just a quick kiss.
And since then we have kissed like than a couple other times.
But then we agreed to not kiss or hug at all as it can so easily lead to ‘more’ than we are free to do, more than people unmarried to each other may share.
And I want to know – if it could be kept to NOTHING more than kissing, in thoughts or actions, is kissing ok? And if not, does it need confessed? Right now we are holding true to no hugs or kisses, but I miss the touch, the kisses, the physical contact (not sex, especially, in this instance) that connects me with others, and if it is just kissing,can we go back to that?

You cannot date or be romantically involved with anyone while you are still married.
You keep stressing you are just best friends. I think you are kidding yourself. It is obviously more than that.

 

[RachelKH]

Well, we are just friends. But we each have a physical side to ourselves too. I love him as a wonderful friend. But that’s all it is. Some people can be friends and give backrubs, hugs, even kisses and still not be ‘more than friends’ in their minds. When I had lots of little kids all climbing over me all the time, I would get ‘touch overload’ and want to just not be touched at all for a bit. Now, without a spouse to hug or kiss or hold, it’s nice to occasionally hug or kiss a friend. And I know deep kissing is definitely out. But is there a kiss between a peck on the cheek and frenching that is ok between a man and a woman? Probably not, right? So we should just never kiss or maybe even hug, since the physical side could get woken up, right? Guess I was just wanting to have my feelings, and his, that we weren’t being scrupulous in refraining from kissing confirmed. After 25 years of being married, it’s hard to know things sometimes.

 

[Castello]

Kiss him exactly the way you would want your husband to kiss a woman other than you (if you were married). Touch him that same way, be the kind of friend you want your husband to have as a female friend.

 

[Mary_Gail_36]

There are two issues…the kissing and you being still married in the Church.

You can’t kiss him, because you are married to someone else, and it isn’t fair to the new man to have romantic gestures with him when you cannot marry him.

 

[RachelKH]

Thank you for your answers.

 

[Dakota_Roberts]

Well, we are just friends. But we each have a physical side to ourselves too. I love him as a wonderful friend. But that’s all it is. Some people can be friends and give backrubs, hugs, even kisses and still not be ‘more than friends’ in their minds. When I had lots of little kids all climbing over me all the time, I would get ‘touch overload’ and want to just not be touched at all for a bit. Now, without a spouse to hug or kiss or hold, it’s nice to occasionally hug or kiss a friend. And I know deep kissing is definitely out. But is there a kiss between a peck on the cheek and frenching that is ok between a man and a woman? Probably not, right? So we should just never kiss or maybe even hug, since the physical side could get woken up, right? Guess I was just wanting to have my feelings, and his, that we weren’t being scrupulous in refraining from kissing confirmed. After 25 years of being married, it’s hard to know things sometimes.

I find it ironic that all that was permitted in the Middle Ages and Early Modern period which were “somewhat” more conservative than now.

 

[Curious_Seed]

I’ve been separated from my husband for 3 years and the divorce is almost final and I’ll be petitioning for annulment immediately.
I have friends that help me deal with the sadness and problems of ended marriage.
I love one of my friends – who he is, how he approaches life, his faith, his way of helping me face up to reality and follow Church rulings, his willingness to listen and share his struggles and mine, how he encourages me to continue daily Mass, Friday Adoration, monthly confession, etc.
We are more than just friends, but definitely not dating or even looking at the future and planning on anything since there is no freedom to go there yet until/if the Church says so. We are ‘best friends’ – special to each other but only friends.
But…
in hugging/holding each other while crying together one time, our usual kiss goodbye became more than just a quick kiss.
And since then we have kissed like than a couple other times.
But then we agreed to not kiss or hug at all as it can so easily lead to ‘more’ than we are free to do, more than people unmarried to each other may share.
And I want to know – if it could be kept to NOTHING more than kissing, in thoughts or actions, is kissing ok? And if not, does it need confessed? Right now we are holding true to no hugs or kisses, but I miss the touch, the kisses, the physical contact (not sex, especially, in this instance) that connects me with others, and if it is just kissing,can we go back to that?

Why would you ask questions for which you already know the answers?

Would you really be at a loss, if you were to advise someone else with the same issues?

Not rocket science here.

Can you not hear the deception creeping in?

One kiss on the lips, one thousand kisses in the mind.

Your needs are natural.

Your path to satisfying them is your choice.

But, God will not abide in you, if your mind is adulterous.

The Church may not grant your petition.

What then about your beliefs in God, Church, marriage, and yourself?

This is what you should occupy yourself with, not what it takes to find uninvolved “innocent” kissing and hugging.

 

[RachelKH]

I remember when my last pastor was new to our parish and he stood in the back of the church for a reception and people shook his hand or gave him a hug and one woman while I was nearby gave him a big hug and a kiss on the lips and Msgr said, “That was so good, I think I’ll take another!” and while still holding her in his arms gave her a another really big kiss on the lips. Since then, it’s been kind of difficult to think about kisses and know where the line is.

 

[Castello]

Kissing on the lips can be chaste, like you would kiss your brother or your dad or that sweet man at church or a guest at your dinner party or an old friend! If it causes you to go further, don’t do it.

 

[Aelred_Minor]

I remember when my last pastor was new to our parish and he stood in the back of the church for a reception and people shook his hand or gave him a hug and one woman while I was nearby gave him a big hug and a kiss on the lips and Msgr said, “That was so good, I think I’ll take another!” and while still holding her in his arms gave her a another really big kiss on the lips. Since then, it’s been kind of difficult to think about kisses and know where the line is.

I’ve heard of priests doing this kind of thing. Actually a girl I dated and her friend both had this happen to them, a priest they were both close to giving a supposedly “friendly” kiss on the lips, and it freaked them out. I talked with another priest about this and he said it is indeed a problem that comes up with some priest and needs to be avoided, when the priest doesn’t know where the boundaries are or talks himself into thinking certain unacceptable things are acceptable.

It might partially be a family/generational thing too. In some families, and I think this was more common the farther back in time you go, parents and children or siblings would routinely kiss each other on the lips. In fact I can recall once seeing a very old cartoon, from the 1930s I would guess, in which a mother kisses each of her children on the lips as they leave the house.

In reality though for the vast majority of Americans these days kissing on the lips is something that only happens in a romantic and/or sexual context. While I’m not a mind reader it seems obvious to me that there is something of the sort going on here, even if still under the name of friendship. I’d suggest eliminating all physical expressions of affection with this man until you get an annulment (if you do).

 

[Curious_Seed]

I remember when my last pastor was new to our parish and he stood in the back of the church for a reception and people shook his hand or gave him a hug and one woman while I was nearby gave him a big hug and a kiss on the lips and Msgr said, “That was so good, I think I’ll take another!” and while still holding her in his arms gave her a another really big kiss on the lips. Since then, it’s been kind of difficult to think about kisses and know where the line is.

Since then, its been kind of difficult to think about kisses and know where the line is?

My.

If he raped her, would you then have difficulty knowing where the line was with rape or is it only kissing that beguiles you?

 

[Aelred_Minor]

Since then, its been kind of difficult to think about kisses and know where the line is?

My.

If he raped her, would you then have difficulty knowing where the line was with rape or is it only kissing that beguiles you?

Note that in this case, unlike the situation I mentioned, the woman initiated the kissing, and it was done in public. Hence the greater potential for confusion on what is socially acceptible.

 

[lizaanne]

I have a rule, and it’s a really good rule. I don’t kiss anyone on the mouth if I’m not married to them. That pretty much rules out everyone in the world aside from my husband. It makes it totally easy and mindless - no guessing.

And no, I don’t kiss my parents on the mouth either. I grew out of that when I was about 12.

~Liza

 

[Curious_Seed]

Note that in this case, unlike the situation I mentioned, the woman initiated the kissing, and it was done in public. Hence the greater potential for confusion on what is socially acceptible.

Greater potential for what is socially acceptable?

Yes, greater potential for social acceptance; but, not lesser potential for personal acceptance.

Is our comportment dependent on who initiates and in what venue?

Is failure of behavior among God’s elect grounds for others to also fail?

The act of kissing is defined by one’s thoughts about it.

The act of brother kissing sister, mother kissing son, friend kissing friend is innocent because the mind is innocent.

Jesus told us that thinking is as violating as doing, if not innocent.

So, where the thoughts are, so is the heart. Is that not true?

Honesty with oneself and God, not contrived intentions, reveals necessary behavior.

 

[Bookcat]

One acts as one who is not free to date or marry…as a married person.

 

[Debora123]

I’ve been separated from my husband for 3 years and the divorce is almost final and I’ll be petitioning for annulment immediately.
I have friends that help me deal with the sadness and problems of ended marriage.
I love one of my friends – who he is, how he approaches life, his faith, his way of helping me face up to reality and follow Church rulings, his willingness to listen and share his struggles and mine, how he encourages me to continue daily Mass, Friday Adoration, monthly confession, etc.
We are more than just friends, but definitely not dating or even looking at the future and planning on anything since there is no freedom to go there yet until/if the Church says so. We are ‘best friends’ – special to each other but only friends.
But…
in hugging/holding each other while crying together one time, our usual kiss goodbye became more than just a quick kiss.
And since then we have kissed like than a couple other times.
But then we agreed to not kiss or hug at all as it can so easily lead to ‘more’ than we are free to do, more than people unmarried to each other may share.
And I want to know – if it could be kept to NOTHING more than kissing, in thoughts or actions, is kissing ok? And if not, does it need confessed? Right now we are holding true to no hugs or kisses, but I miss the touch, the kisses, the physical contact (not sex, especially, in this instance) that connects me with others, and if it is just kissing,can we go back to that?

Wait until the annulment goes through. Then you can kiss.