Kneeling during blessings

[orgel_maestro]

Traditionally, one would kneel whenever receiving a blessing, not just from bishops but also when priests give you a blessing

I wonder, why we’ve stopped doing that…

I go to a Traditional parish, so of course we kneel during the final blessing and whenever the incarnation is mentioned in the last gospel and credo (in the NO, you’re supposed to bow, I don’t even see that very often…)

 

[johnnydigit]

an increase in pride… ignorance… with a decrease in humility, reverence, faith, overall morals, family values, belief in the true presence, etc…
or did you want something more specific? i doubt there is really much more to it other than “i don’t wanna… why should i? i don’t have to… what benefit is it for me… these are expensive pants… my knees might get dirty… he’s just a priest!”

 

[orgel_maestro]

an increase in pride… ignorance… with a decrease in humility, reverence, faith, overall morals, family values, belief in the true presence, etc…
or did you want something more specific? i doubt there is really much more to it other than “i don’t wanna… why should i? i don’t have to… what benefit is it for me… these are expensive pants… my knees might get dirty… he’s just a priest!”

I mean, I wasn’t around when V2 took place. But, was it just like all of sudden the Pope and bishops said, “o hey guys, u guys don’t need to kneel any more when we bless you”

Nothing of the sort was ever stated in the V2 documents I would think, I haven’t read them to be honest. But, you would think there would still be a great repsect for the sacramental Priesthood.

At First Novus Ordo masses, do people still kiss the hands of the new priest after he has given his first blessings at his first mass?

 

[NPC]

an increase in pride… ignorance… with a decrease in humility, reverence, faith, overall morals, family values, belief in the true presence, etc…
or did you want something more specific? i doubt there is really much more to it other than “i don’t wanna… why should i? i don’t have to… what benefit is it for me… these are expensive pants… my knees might get dirty… he’s just a priest!”

Why do we firstly jump to the conclusion that it is because people are being irreverent?! I don’t doubt that at least some people don’t kneel for the reasons you have given, but in my diocese the bishop has directed that we remain standing for the final blessing. The reason for this is that the final blessing is also the “sending forth” of the people to “love and to serve the Lord”. Standing is seen as the proper posture for this- the people are standing ready to be sent out into the world by Christ as the Apostles were. As kneeling is an appropriate posture for adoration, we kneel after the Sanctus until the Great Amen, and then we kneel after the Agnus Dei… So if I don’t kneel for a blessing (where you ordinarily would) you may blame my “increase in pride, ignorance, decrease in humility, reverence, faith…belief in the True Presence” (as you see it) on my bishop.

 

[orgel_maestro]

Why do we firstly jump to the conclusion that it is because people are being irreverent?! I don’t doubt that at least some people don’t kneel for the reasons you have given, but in my diocese the bishop has directed that we remain standing for the final blessing. The reason for this is that the final blessing is also the “sending forth” of the people to “love and to serve the Lord”. Standing is seen as the proper posture for this- the people are standing ready to be sent out into the world by Christ as the Apostles were. As kneeling is an appropriate posture for adoration, we kneel after the Sanctus until the Great Amen, and then we kneel after the Agnus Dei… So if I don’t kneel for a blessing (where you ordinarily would) you may blame my “increase in pride, ignorance, decrease in humility, reverence, faith…belief in the True Presence” (as you see it) on my bishop.

what about individual special blessings from a new priest at his first mass or when the bishop is processing out? the latter is not seen as a sending forth is it, since he already gave a final belssing at the end of mass before the procession?

 

[richard_wang]

"There are groups, of no small influence, who are tying to talk us out of kneeling. “It doesn’t suit our culture”, they say (which culture?). “It’s not right for a grown man to do this - He should face God on his feet.” Or again: “It’s not appropriate for redeemed man - he has been set free by Christ and doesn’t need to kneel any more”.

…]

… there is a story that comes from the sayings of the Desert Fathers, according to which the devil was compelled by God to show himself to a certain Abba Apollo. He looked black and ugly, with frighteningly thin limbs, but, most strikingly, he had no knees. the inability to kneel is seen as the very essence of the diabolical. (emphasis added in the original)

…]

“It may well be that kneeling is alien to modern culture - insofar as it is a culture, for this culture has turned away from the faith and no longer knows the One before whom kneeling is the right, indeed the intrinsically necessary gesture. The man who learns to believe learns also to kneel and a faith or a liturgy no longer familiar with kneeling is sick at the core. Where it has been lost, kneeling must be rediscovered, so that, in our prayer, we remain in fellowship with the apostles and martyrs, in fellowship with the whole cosmos, indeed in union with Jesus Christ Himself.”
(emphasis added)

Pope Benedict XVI (Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger), The Spirit Of The Liturgy, pp. 184-194

 

[I_Believe]

"There are groups, of no small influence, who are tying to talk us out of kneeling. “It doesn’t suit our culture”, they say (which culture?). “It’s not right for a grown man to do this - He should face God on his feet.” Or again: “It’s not appropriate for redeemed man - he has been set free by Christ and doesn’t need to kneel any more”.

…]

… there is a story that comes from the sayings of the Desert Fathers, according to which the devil was compelled by God to show himself to a certain Abba Apollo. He looked black and ugly, with frighteningly thin limbs, but, most strikingly, he had no knees. the inability to kneel is seen as the very essence of the diabolical. (emphasis added in the original)

…]

“It may well be that kneeling is alien to modern culture - insofar as it is a culture, for this culture has turned away from the faith and no longer knows the One before whom kneeling is the right, indeed the intrinsically necessary gesture. The man who learns to believe learns also to kneel and a faith or a liturgy no longer familiar with kneeling is sick at the core. Where it has been lost, kneeling must be rediscovered, so that, in our prayer, we remain in fellowship with the apostles and martyrs, in fellowship with the whole cosmos, indeed in union with Jesus Christ Himself.”
(emphasis added)

Pope Benedict XVI (Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger), The Spirit Of The Liturgy, pp. 184-194

God Bless Pope BXVI, and may God the Father grant him many years, if it be His Will !

Sorry to stray off topic, but goodness, I wish the SSPX and other independent clergy would embrace this Pope. Just the mention of his name makes me smile !

 

[sancte_joseph]

Truly God Bless the Pope!

I think (my opinion) when the pope got elected he wanted to change many of the things that have gone wrong with the liturgy. but he is smart. He didn’t want to make the same mistake of making drastic changes that people protested to them.

So His holiness slowly but surely is making changes…the indult of the tridentine mass, the kneeling to receive communion, the 6 candles and altar cross actually ON THE ALTAR, the red shoes lol anyway…

GOOD JOB POPE BENEDICT

 

[I_Believe]

Truly God Bless the Pope!

I think (my opinion) when the pope got elected he wanted to change many of the things that have gone wrong with the liturgy. but he is smart. He didn’t want to make the same mistake of making drastic changes that people protested to them.

So His holiness slowly but surely is making changes…the indult of the tridentine mass, the kneeling to receive communion, the 6 candles and altar cross actually ON THE ALTAR, the red shoes lol anyway…

GOOD JOB POPE BENEDICT

Yep, Red shoes, white cap, baby steps.

 

[NPC]

what about individual special blessings from a new priest at his first mass or when the bishop is processing out? the latter is not seen as a sending forth is it, since he already gave a final belssing at the end of mass before the procession?

Firstly, let me say that I am most certainly not against kneeling - I am always disappointed to hear on these forums people reporting that their church has removed kneelers, or Communion being refused to those who kneel. However we have no right whatsoever to judge a person as ignorant or irreverent because they do not kneel. I know there are customs and conventions - when to kneel and when not to - and lucky for us God also sees the reverence a person actually has as well as what they show to people by kneeling or shows of piety. I would be happy if I could see a person standing at a blessing or whatever, but full of faith and reverence in their heart, rather than a person kneeling but not knowing what he is kneeling for or one who makes pious actions for the benefit of those around him rather than God.

To be honest, I have only been to one ordination Mass in recent years, and I don’t know about new priests giving blessings after the Mass. Our bishop certainly does not give blessings while he is processing out - nor did his predecessor. Your question does, however, make me wonder a bit about the nature of blessings - the celebrant has just given a blessing to the whole congregation at the end of Mass, so for what purpose do they give blessings on the way out? Is the one not sufficient, that in the space of two minutes people are getting another - or do the effects of blessings add up so that there should be people scrambling to get another blessing from the bishop?

 

[Andreas_Hofer]

To be honest, I have only been to one ordination Mass in recent years, and I don’t know about new priests giving blessings after the Mass. Our bishop certainly does not give blessings while he is processing out - nor did his predecessor. Your question does, however, make me wonder a bit about the nature of blessings - the celebrant has just given a blessing to the whole congregation at the end of Mass, so for what purpose do they give blessings on the way out? Is the one not sufficient, that in the space of two minutes people are getting another - or do the effects of blessings add up so that there should be people scrambling to get another blessing from the bishop?

Initially, that final blessing was reserved to bishops and was done as they were processing out. That’s why the blessing takes place after the dismissal in the traditional rite. At some later point, though, two other developments took place: priests were extended the right to give this final blessing, and for them it was confined to being done at the altar. My guess is that the architects of the NO decided that, since the “every-Sunday” experience of most Catholics would be to have that blessing conferred at the altar by the priest, they would just slip it on into the Mass itself. I don’t actually know, though, what the proper practice is for a bishop in the NO (whether he continues the later blessing while leaving or must give it from the altar).

 

[tonio5555]

I kneel anyway. I imagine most people don’t know any better in the NO.

 

[johnnydigit]

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