Kneeling during the Penetential Rite

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Oneofthewomen

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I have noticed something that is happeneing in parishes in my area, and am wondering if anyone else is seeing the same same thing.
Since Ash Wednesday, we are being asked to kneel during the Penetential rite.

I will state out-right, I ***DO NOT ***have a problem with this, per se.
However, I live in a diocese where the GIRM is usually looked at as something that holds very little authority, and priests, pastoral administrators and liturgical committees, at times blatantly disreagard it’s instructions.

The GIRM states that the proper posture is standing.
  1. The faithful should stand from the beginning of the Entrance Chant, or while the Priest approaches the altar, until the end of the Collect; for the Alleluia Chant before the Gospel; while the Gospel itself is proclaimed; during the Profession of Faith and the Universal Prayer; and from the invitation, Orate, fratres (Pray, brethren), before the Prayer over the Offerings until the end of Mass, except at the places indicated here below.
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Is this something that falls within the pervue of the Ordinary to change?

As I said, I have no problem with the action. My issue comes with people “changing” things that they may not have the authority to change.

Thoughts?
 
It is also happening in my parish. I, like you, don’t have a problem with it. We do this during Lent. Hopefully someone else can chime in in regards to the GIRM.
 
I always kneel during the Penetintial Rite during every Mass no matter what season it is.
 
My old parish did this during Lent last year (or was it the year before?). Not sure if they’re doing it this year…

I thought about it, and remember thinking, “Hmmm…pretty sure this isn’t allowed…don’t the rubrics call for standing right now? Nothing about kneeling here. I bet some ‘traditionalists’ would like this because it’s kneeling and they like kneeling…but I still don’t think it’s allowed.”
 
anp1215 said:
My old parish did this during Lent last year (or was it the year before?). Not sure if they’re doing it this year…

I thought about it, and remember thinking, “Hmmm…pretty sure this isn’t allowed…don’t the rubrics call for standing right now? Nothing about kneeling here. I bet some ‘traditionalists’ would like this because it’s kneeling and they like kneeling…but I still don’t think it’s allowed.”
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anp1215, you hit the nail on the head, I believe! 😉

So long as it’s something that gives an “appearance” of piety, changing the rubrics seems to be OK. Why is that? Is this any different than the congregation holding hands during the Our Father or using the ‘orans’ position? Neither of theose things are addressed, pro or con, in the GIRM, yet I have seen many a poster get flamed for even suggesting that either may be a good idea.

So why the dichotomy? If we want “say the black, do the red”, shouldn’t it apply to everything? 🤷
 
Oneofthewomen said:
anp1215, you hit the nail on the head, I believe! 😉

So long as it’s something that gives an “appearance” of piety, changing the rubrics seems to be OK. Why is that? Is this any different than the congregation holding hands during the Our Father or using the ‘orans’ position? Neither of theose things are addressed, pro or con, in the GIRM, yet I have seen many a poster get flamed for even suggesting that either may be a good idea.

So why the dichotomy? If we want “say the black, do the red”, shouldn’t it apply to everything? 🤷
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Yup. This attitude has always irritated me. I’ve seen it applied to numerous liturgical practices.
 
anp1215 said:
Yup. This attitude has always irritated me. I’ve seen it applied to numerous liturgical practices.
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I have never seen this before, and our church does a LOT of kneeling: after Sanctus, after Agnus Dei, after Communion and at the end of the Mass for Adoration of the Eucharist.
 
CHRISTINE77 said:
I have never seen this before, and our church does a LOT of kneeling: after Sanctus, after Agnus Dei, after Communion and at the end of the Mass for Adoration of the Eucharist.
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And that’s what you should be doing. Again,according to the GIRM, my emphasis
  1. The faithful should stand from the beginning of the Entrance Chant, or while the Priest approaches the altar, until the end of the Collect; for the Alleluia Chant before the Gospel; while the Gospel itself is proclaimed; during the Profession of Faith and the Universal Prayer; and from the invitation, Orate, fratres (Pray, brethren), before the Prayer over the Offerings until the end of Mass, except at the places indicated here below.
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The faithful should sit, on the other hand, during the readings before the Gospel and the Responsorial Psalm and for the Homily and during the Preparation of the Gifts at the Offertory; and, if appropriate, they may sit or kneel during the period of sacred silence after Communion.
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In the Dioceses of the United States of America, they should kneel beginning after the singing or recitation of the Sanctus (Holy, Holy, Holy) until after the Amen of the Eucharistic Prayer, except when prevented on occasion by ill health, or for reasons of lack of space, of the large number of people present, or for another reasonable cause. However, those who do not kneel ought to make a profound bow when the Priest genuflects after the Consecration. The faithful kneel after the Agnus Dei (Lamb of God) unless the Diocesan Bishop determines otherwise.[53]
For the sake of uniformity in gestures and bodily postures during one and the same celebration, the faithful should follow the instructions which the Deacon, a lay minister, or the Priest gives, according to what is laid down in the Missal.
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I did ask a priest friend, if they kneel at his parish, and he said “No”. When I asked about the practice, he said he knew some who did it, but it did not know where/how it started. He was unaware of the Bishop giving any direction on the issue.

Which, I guess brings us back to why is this OK? Is it?
It’s not in the rubrics and we so often see threads about “abuse” when they aren’t followed. So is this an “abuse”? Why or why not? 🤷
 
In Anglican Use parishes the congregation kneels for the penitential rite year-round.
 
CHRISTINE77 said:
I have never seen this before, and our church does a LOT of kneeling: after Sanctus, after Agnus Dei, after Communion and at the end of the Mass for Adoration of the Eucharist.
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I was actually saying that the attitude annoyed me (the attitude that extra kneeling or extra personal practices aren’t abuses, because I like them, but stuff like the orans position during the Our Father is an abuse because I don’t like it), not the actual kneeling. (By the way, not saying that you or anyone on the thread thus far have that attitude, but I have definitely seen it before).
 
anp1215 said:
I was actually saying that the attitude annoyed me (the attitude that extra kneeling or extra personal practices aren’t abuses, because I like them, but stuff like the orans position during the Our Father is an abuse because I don’t like it), not the actual kneeling. (By the way, not saying that you or anyone on the thread thus far have that attitude, but I have definitely seen it before).
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Or they just don’t know better.😉 Some people seem to think it’s correct to pray the Our Father holding hands or in the orans position, and also answer the Priest when he says: “The Lord Be With You”, with their arms outstretched. Mostly I think people think they are doing the right thing, so really the Priest should instruct them the correct positions to kneel and pray in.
 
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