Kneeling to recieve

[aussie_melkite]

Hi all, on All Saints day I went to my Local and only Latin Mass here in brisbane. it was very nice, very spiritual much like my own Eastern Church, but of course as someone who was bought up as an Eastern Catholic (and a Novous Ordo Roman Catholic when we didnt live near a EC parish) there are still afew things I dont completly understand.

what Id like to know is why do Tradtional Latin Catholics (and all Latin Catholics prior to Vat 2) kneel to recieve communion? when did the Latin Church first bring in the Keeling to recieve and how does it relate to the the decree at the first council of nieca that forbids kneeling on sundays?

 

[reggieM]

Hi all, on All Saints day I went to my Local and only Latin Mass here in brisbane. it was very nice, very spiritual much like my own Eastern Church, but of course as someone who was bought up as an Eastern Catholic (and a Novous Ordo Roman Catholic when we didnt live near a EC parish) there are still afew things I dont completly understand.

what Id like to know is why do Tradtional Latin Catholics (and all Latin Catholics prior to Vat 2) kneel to recieve communion? when did the Latin Church first bring in the Keeling to recieve and how does it relate to the the decree at the first council of nieca that forbids kneeling on sundays?

That question has a long history to go through.
Kneeling for prayer goes back to the early Church (East and West) where it was a primary posture for private prayer. There were times during the Sunday liturgy that the priest called to the people to kneel (this is retained as on Good Friday “flectamus genua”).

Sometime around the 4th century as penitential practices were more developed, some of the Fathers of the Church required that penitents should kneel during Sunday Mass (St. Basil the Great introduced this). This became more common for the faithful in the West (not just penitents).

The Council of Nicea forbade kneeling in this passage:

Because there are some who kneel on the Lord’s Day and in the days of Pentecost [the fifty days between Easter and Whit-Sunday]: that all things may be uniformly performed in every parish or diocese, it seems good to the Holy Synod that the prayers [tas euchas] be by all made to God, standing.

Interpreters of this passage have looked at the term “the prayers” to understand what was meant. It is not directed at the entire liturgy itself.

Kneeling for Communion was introduced probably in the 11th century and it was retained from then on.

In the Melkite Rite there remains “Kneeling Sunday” – so the Nicene prohibition cannot be considered something of a dogmatic statement. It’s a liturgical guideline that was done to bring liturgical practice into uniformity.

 

[aussie_melkite]

That question has a long history to go through.
Kneeling for prayer goes back to the early Church (East and West) where it was a primary posture for private prayer. There were times during the Sunday liturgy that the priest called to the people to kneel (this is retained as on Good Friday “flectamus genua”).

Sometime around the 4th century as penitential practices were more developed, some of the Fathers of the Church required that penitents should kneel during Sunday Mass (St. Basil the Great introduced this). This became more common for the faithful in the West (not just penitents).

The Council of Nicea forbade kneeling in this passage:

Because there are some who kneel on the Lord’s Day and in the days of Pentecost [the fifty days between Easter and Whit-Sunday]: that all things may be uniformly performed in every parish or diocese, it seems good to the Holy Synod that the prayers [tas euchas] be by all made to God, standing.

Interpreters of this passage have looked at the term “the prayers” to understand what was meant. It is not directed at the entire liturgy itself.

Kneeling for Communion was introduced probably in the 11th century and it was retained from then on.

In the Melkite Rite there remains “Kneeling Sunday” – so the Nicene prohibition cannot be considered something of a dogmatic statement. It’s a liturgical guideline that was done to bring liturgical practice into uniformity.

aww thank you for that was very helpful…I love both Tradtions I just needed to figure out how kneeling in west reflected the teaching at nieca…cheers

 

[reggieM]

Great - I’m glad that helped.

I love the Melkite liturgy and I wish I could attend it more often. In many ways it is … “better”? (we shouldn’t make such comparisons) than the traditional Roman Rite.

The liturgical changes in the West leading to the Novus Ordo were an attempt to restore some of the early practices that the Eastern liturgy had retained.

 

[aussie_melkite]

Great - I’m glad that helped.

I love the Melkite liturgy and I wish I could attend it more often. In many ways it is … “better”? (we shouldn’t make such comparisons) than the traditional Roman Rite.

The liturgical changes in the West leading to the Novus Ordo were an attempt to restore some of the early practices that the Eastern liturgy had retained.

yeah I dont think “better” is a word we should use to discribe the various ritual churches…all ritual Churches are Beautiful in their own way…that being said Im happy I have my own Ritual Church only 10 mins walking distance from my flat as its “better” for ME. however Im sure for Western Christians the Roman Mass is “better” for Them and feeds their spirtual needs.

…and yes the New Mass has alot of eastern practises in it, I believe 1 or more of the Modern Eucharistic prayers is actual a Latinized version of an Eastern one. even facing the people is actually a feature of the Ancient and Venerable Liturgy of St James…(though on a personal note I prefer the priest facing the Altar). I have high hopes than when the new translation of the Roman Mass comes out it will fix up the errors that have crept into the more liberal Dioceses (such as my own…and even if it doent well Ive still got own Melkite Church )

oh and to all who are reading this please pray for me as my Preist has asked if I wish to be ordained??? into the Sub-diaconate…Im currently discerning now if its right for me.

 

[bpbasilphx]

As I have said elsewhere, I respect and receive all the authorized rites of the church, though I have a special devotion to the various recensions of the Byzantine.

I understand the Western practice of receiving kneeling (after all, this was what I did as an Episcopalian). However now, with my various infirmities, especially gout and arthritis, the problem is not kneeling to receive, but getting back up!

 

[aussie_melkite]

As I have said elsewhere, I respect and receive all the authorized rites of the church, though I have a special devotion to the various recensions of the Byzantine.

I understand the Western practice of receiving kneeling (after all, this was what I did as an Episcopalian). However now, with my various infirmities, especially gout and arthritis, the problem is not kneeling to receive, but getting back up!

HAHAHAHA yeah I know the felling my mother in paticular cant get up and down anymore so recieving in the Old Mass might be abit hard 4 people in the same boat.