Kneeling

[Petertherock]

With all this talk about hand holding and the “orans” position I have a comment/question. My mother doesn’t like kneeling during the mass. She says it makes her feel out of place because she has bad knees and can’t kneel. She says when she is sitting and most of the congregation is kneeling people look at her like she’s not a Catholic because she is supposed to kneel. My mother says this causes more disunity in the Church then any hand holding or orans position during the Lord’s Prayer would. I have to say that given the fact I see many people who can’t kneel at Mass I have to agree with her. Maybe this is why some priests have taken out kneelers at their Church’s.

 

[Sgt_Sweaters]

It’s not anyone else’s concern whether or not she is kneeling. Opinions in Mass shouldn’t be an issue. Look what it leads to. For example, some will receive communion even in a state of mortal sin because they’re afraid of what people might think if they don’t receive at all.

I think if one can kneel, one ought. It’s a matter of reverence and worship. If your mum can’t, then she needn’t. But kneelers shouldn’t be taken out for the comfort of those who cannot or will not kneel. Personally, I’ll kneel regardless; I just prefer a cushion.

 

[Nan_S]

Petertherock:

My mother doesn’t like kneeling during the mass. She says it makes her feel out of place because she has bad knees and can’t kneel. She says when she is sitting and most of the congregation is kneeling people look at her like she’s not a Catholic because she is supposed to kneel.

OK, I’m going to try to be charitable here.

If I understand you correctly, your mum wants the rest of us to stop kneeling because she has bad knees. Well, as there is a lady in my parish who can’t get out of her wheelchair, maybe we should stop standing, too, so she won’t feel bad either. Do you see how ridiculous this can get?

As long as your mother participates in the Mass and takes communion, no proper Catholic would mistake her for a non-Catholic. And those few who would persist in such an opinion, and be self-righteous enough to not make a polite inquiry, are not worth being concerned about.

Most of the people I know who have trouble kneeling compromise by scooting forward on the pew and leaning on the rail in front of them. Alternatively, she could select a seat with no kneeler.

If she wants to come to Mass with us she could join our choir, as they all sit on portable chairs in front of the church, to the left of the altar. And no one thinks any less of them when they don’t kneel.

 

[Petertherock]

I agree. People should look more at themselves and their own actions before they look at someone else’s actions.

 

[dumspirospero]

Judging from your other post…I would have to say that this one doesn’t surprise me…Hey, I have an idea…why don’t we just eliminate everything from the Mass in the GIRM or anything that is reverant, holy, or respectful in the least bit because you, your mother, or my buddy down the road doesn’t feel it is necessary…sarcasm of course!!! You obviously want to know why The Catholic Church is suffering such great attrition, due to your previous posts…well I have a simple answer for you…“look in the mirror”. Our faith is not about convenience or options. If your mother can not legitimately kneel due to age or health, that is fine…but to compare it to liturgical abuses such as hand holding or orans to try and justify something that is just blatantly wrong, is just absurd.

Petertherock:

With all this talk about hand holding and the “orans” position I have a comment/question. My mother doesn’t like kneeling during the mass. She says it makes her feel out of place because she has bad knees and can’t kneel. She says when she is sitting and most of the congregation is kneeling people look at her like she’s not a Catholic because she is supposed to kneel. My mother says this causes more disunity in the Church then any hand holding or orans position during the Lord’s Prayer would. I have to say that given the fact I see many people who can’t kneel at Mass I have to agree with her. Maybe this is why some priests have taken out kneelers at their Church’s.

 

[Petertherock]

You are just like the pharisees who study the law and tell everyone how they should worship but you miss the whole point of your faith. I am going to try to be charitable myself but your attitude of “I’m right and everyone else is wrong because I am holier than anyone else.” is exactly what keeps people away from the Church. You show me in Church documents where it says that holding hands during the Lord’s Prayer is wrong??? You can’t!! Because it’s not there!!

What do you do during Mass? Do you sit and stand and kneel there watching everyone else and keep tabs on what everyone else is doing wrong? That’s what it sounds like to me!

I don’t like holding hands during the Lord’s Prayer myself, but I am not about to tell someone else they shouldn’t do it if they want to! It doesn’t take any reverence away from the Mass the way other people worship and pray.

If Jesus was standing next to you and He put his hand out would you refuse to hold His hand? Some of you people need to worry less about what other people do and worry about your own “abuses.”

 

[palmas85]

Why are you always so hostile? It seems as if you have a lot of problems with people who have traditional views. Why?

 

[nianka]

Petertherock:

…but you miss the whole point of your faith.

This is the point you should make to you dear mother. She is there to worship God and Savior, not worry about what other people think about her. Give her the comfort of knowing that “they” don’t matter. If she can’t kneel, she can’t kneel. If she’s of any age, any idiot can probably see she physically can’t kneel and shouldn’t give it another thought. My guess is that fewer people criticize her than she thinks (we humans are like that).
I kneel when everyone else is standing and I could care less. My focus is on My Lord and My God and no one else.
nianka

 

[Joan_M]

Petertherock:

With all this talk about hand holding and the “orans” position I have a comment/question. My mother doesn’t like kneeling during the mass. She says it makes her feel out of place because she has bad knees and can’t kneel. She says when she is sitting and most of the congregation is kneeling people look at her like she’s not a Catholic because she is supposed to kneel. My mother says this causes more disunity in the Church then any hand holding or orans position during the Lord’s Prayer would. I have to say that given the fact I see many people who can’t kneel at Mass I have to agree with her. Maybe this is why some priests have taken out kneelers at their Church’s.

Your mother doesn’t like kneeling because she is unable to kneel. With every respect for your mother, this is a self-centered reaction.

This, however, is NOT why some priests have taken out kneelers - their reason is they are proud and do not feel that we should kneel before our God. We should probably be prostrating ourselves, but that would be rather difficult!!

 

[Patchunky]

Joan M:

We should probably be prostrating ourselves, but that would be rather difficult!!

Actually, doing full prostations is quite easy once you take the pews out… pews are a Protestant introduction after all…

Kneeling is NOT as traditional as you all think. The 7th Council of Nicea in the 8th century banned kneeling during the Divine Liturgy (what the Mass was called before the Split) on Sundays and all kneeling from Easter Sunday until Pentecost…

Full prostrations at the Divine Liturgy is standard practice among the Old Believers of the Russian Orthododox church and some other Orthodox branches…

hope this helps…

 

[Mysty101]

Yes, and I wonder if there was all this discussion about denying Communion to a prostrating Communicant after the change:banghead:

 

[JNB]

Now if people have health problems, that is one issue that most people understand about. At the times I attend a Traditional Latin Mass, there are those who can not kneel, and people understand. They sit in the pews when people kneel and stand in front of the altar rail for communion, and few think anything of it, since they understand many people have physical impdiments.

As for the pharisees phrase, I am tired of hearing it as a response when people rightly ask about reverence in the mass. Part of the culture of the west in terms of reverence is kneeling, and when someone is able bodied, no reason why they should not kneel. As fir you not think this is a big deal, all I can say is the phrase “how we pray is how we believe”. With a great degree of confidence, the parishes that are more reverent in how the Mass is said are far more likely(though I agree there is an exception on occasion) to have parishoners that follow church teachings than what you see in parishes that lack reverence.

Petertherock:

You are just like the pharisees who study the law and tell everyone how they should worship but you miss the whole point of your faith. I am going to try to be charitable myself but your attitude of “I’m right and everyone else is wrong because I am holier than anyone else.” is exactly what keeps people away from the Church. You show me in Church documents where it says that holding hands during the Lord’s Prayer is wrong??? You can’t!! Because it’s not there!!

What do you do during Mass? Do you sit and stand and kneel there watching everyone else and keep tabs on what everyone else is doing wrong? That’s what it sounds like to me!

I don’t like holding hands during the Lord’s Prayer myself, but I am not about to tell someone else they shouldn’t do it if they want to! It doesn’t take any reverence away from the Mass the way other people worship and pray.

If Jesus was standing next to you and He put his hand out would you refuse to hold His hand? Some of you people need to worry less about what other people do and worry about your own “abuses.”

 

[Patchunky]

Mysty101:

Yes, and I wonder if there was all this discussion about denying Communion to a prostrating Communicant after the change:banghead:

No, there wasn’t because back then, if you disobeyed the decrees of your Bishop, you were declared ANATHAMA, and barred from entering the Church until you publically repented and did public penance.:nope:

ah, the good ole days…