Laity & Pope Leo XIII Prayer of Exorcism

[MtnDwellar]

** From these prescriptions **it follows that it is not even licit that the faithful use the formula of exorcism against Satan and the fallen angels, extracted from the one published by order of the Supreme Pontiff Leo XIII, and even less that they use the integral text of this exorcism. Bishops should take care to warn the faithful, if necessary, of this.

The Letter Regarding Excorcism is not relevent except as it concerns possession.

I don’t see how it can be logically interperted in any other way. Paragraph 2 states “From these prescriptions…”. The prescriptions are contained in paragraph 1. Paragraph 1 refers directly to Canon Law 1172, which states;

Can. 1172 §1 No one may lawfully exorcise the possessed without the special and express permission of the local Ordinary.

§2 This permission is to be granted by the local Ordinary only to a priest who is endowed with piety, knowledge, prudence and integrity of life.

Since the prescriptions on which paragraph 2 are based are strictly concerned with cases of possession, no inference about cases which are not of possession can be drawn.

What am I missing?

 

[MtnDwellar]

The Letter Regarding Excorcism is not relevent except as it concerns possession.

I don’t see how it can be logically interperted in any other way. Paragraph 2 states “From these prescriptions…”. The prescriptions are contained in paragraph 1. Paragraph 1 refers directly to Canon Law 1172, which states;

Since the prescriptions on which paragraph 2 are based are strictly concerned with cases of possession, no inference about cases which are not of possession can be drawn.

What am I missing?

 

[BluesPicker]

Because that is the question The Dubium if one wished to submit such to the CDF.

“… it is not even licit that the faithful use the formula of exorcism against Satan and the fallen angels, extracted from the one published by order of the Supreme Pontiff Leo XIII, and even less that they use the integral text of this exorcism. Bishops should take care to warn the faithful, if necessary, of this”

It is not even licit (permitted) that the faithful (lay persons) to use (to use ) that formula.

vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_19850924_exorcism_en.html

 Yes,  I understand your position on the matter.  If the CDF does elucidate this matter for the benefit of all  I believe not just you but many will  be surprised. 

  You know conspiracy theories are popular today.  One could pen a book  called the "Catholic Exorcists Conspiracy."   The plot would revolve around exorcists like the late & great Fr. Rufus Pereria  who was president of the International Association of Exorcists who  try to  mislead people.

  Seriously though,  the theology is already in place.  And even if  the Vatican would spell it out what the contents of that letter meant,  few would pray as instructed.

  The late  Fr.  Pellegrino Enetti, OSB ends his article called "All are Exorcists" quoting a  page of the book by his brother priest,Don Pasqualino Fusco (Exorcist):

Prayers of deliverance from evil on page 349 …

the faithful is purported to prohibit the use of the formula of exorcism, published by order of Pope Leo XIII. Now we must say that this prohibition has no value. In fact, a lower grade is not entitled to prohibit the use of a prayer published by order of the Supreme Pontiff. II Catechism of the Catholic Church, published in 1992, states that “solemn exorcism, called Great Exorcism, can only be practiced by a priest with the permission of the bishop” (n. 1673). This means that the private exorcism, played also by laymen, is authorized without the express permission of the bishop, in accordance with the common teaching of the Church Fathers and theologians, and especially in accordance with the words of Jesus, that no one, in any way, has the right to contradict: “And these signs will accompany those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons …” (Mk 16:17) (1).

Of course this must be understood in the sense that the real exorcism (MAJOR) and you really can only do the priest authorized by the bishop, but all Christians can do the prayers of liberation. In fact - in the opinion of P. Amorth - the so-called “exorcism of Leo XIII” is a prayer of deliverance in public that the faithful can not do, but privately - as private prayer of deliverance to the Lord for themselves and for others - you can do it safely.

---

Good Luck,

 

[Bookcat]

The Letter Regarding Excorcism is not relevent except as it concerns possession.
What am I missing?

The letter is not simply addressing cases of possession…

And one can say that the restriction about that formula of Pope Leo XIII - is for any use by the laity.

 

[Bookcat]

on the matter.

I refer you to the Holy See

Ask away …for a public document …a public authoritative “dubium” on the matter.

One can bounce back and forth with the opinions of different exorcists and theologians all day…(as I noted one Bishop expressly noted it was “not permitted” to be used by lay persons).

We can then all read it at the Vatican website I leave the matter to the Holy See.

 

[MtnDwellar]

The letter is not simply addressing cases of possession…

And one can say that the restriction about that formula of Pope Leo XIII - is for any use by the laity.

I explained my logic.
Please explain yours, or at least the flaw in mine.

 

[MtnDwellar]

I refer you to the Holy See

Ask away …for a public document …a public authoritative “dubium” on the matter.

One can bounce back and forth with the opinions of different exorcists and theologians all day…(as I noted one Bishop expressly noted it was “not permitted” to be used by lay persons).

We can then all read it at the Vatican website I leave the matter to the Holy See.

I have not seen any bouncing back and forth from different exorcists and theologians. All of the evidence presented says the prayer can be used by laity.

A dubium is not needed.

 

[Bookcat]

I explained my logic.
Please explain yours, or at least the flaw in mine.

Re-read the document. It is not simply about exorcism of those who are possessed.

And as to the rite in question --it explicitly notes that it is not to be used by the faithful. “not even licit” – “to use”.

Rome may clarify --but it an authoritative clarification would come from such as the CDF who issued the document.

 

[Bookcat]

“it is not even licit that the faithful use the formula of exorcism against Satan and the fallen angels, extracted from the one published by order of the Supreme Pontiff Leo XIII, and even less that they use the integral text of this exorcism. Bishops should take care to warn the faithful, if necessary, of this.”

Note well it states: It is not licit. For the faithful (laity) to use that formula.

Such sounds to be rather restrictive in regards the use of the above mentioned formula.

What can the faithful do one can ask?

Well for one the document notes for example that instead they may:

“Drawing attention to these norms, however, should in no way distance the faithful from praying that, as Jesus taught us, they may be delivered from evil (cf. Mt 6:13). Finally, Pastors may take this opportunity to recall what the Tradition of the Church teaches concerning the role proper to the sacraments and the intercession of the Blessed Virgin Mary, of the Angels and Saints in the Christian’s spiritual battle against evil spirits.”

One may of course seek via a formal dubium – authoritative clarification.

The CDF could clarify the matter in either direction.

 

[Bookcat]

I understand the various arguments pro and con --and as I noted theologians and exorcists can disagree with each other on various matters.

But it seems to me that an authoritative clarification would be a way to settle the issue.

 

[MtnDwellar]

“it is not even licit that the faithful use the formula of exorcism against Satan and the fallen angels, extracted from the one published by order of the Supreme Pontiff Leo XIII, and even less that they use the integral text of this exorcism. Bishops should take care to warn the faithful, if necessary, of this.”

Note well it states: It is not licit. For the faithful (laity) to use that formula.

Such sounds to be rather restrictive in regards the use of the above mentioned formula.

What can the faithful do one can ask?

Well for one the document notes for example that instead they may:

“Drawing attention to these norms, however, should in no way distance the faithful from praying that, as Jesus taught us, they may be delivered from evil (cf. Mt 6:13). Finally, Pastors may take this opportunity to recall what the Tradition of the Church teaches concerning the role proper to the sacraments and the intercession of the Blessed Virgin Mary, of the Angels and Saints in the Christian’s spiritual battle against evil spirits.”

One may of course seek via a formal dubium – authoritative clarification.

The CDF could clarify the matter in either direction.

The second paragraph keeps getting taken out of context.

As I explained earlier, the context concerns possession.

 

[Bookcat]

The second paragraph keeps getting taken out of context.

As I explained earlier, the context concerns possession.

The context of the document can be said to be set by the very first section:

… aimed at seeking deliverance from the influence of demons, while not actually engaging in real exorcisms.

The document can be said to not be concerning simply cases of “possession”…

 

[Bookcat]

I understand the various arguments pro and con --and as I noted theologians and exorcists can disagree with each other on various matters.

But it seems to me that an authoritative clarification would be a way to settle the issue

 

[MtnDwellar]

The context of the document can be said to be set by the very first section:

… aimed at seeking deliverance from the influence of demons, while not actually engaging in real exorcisms.

The document can be said to not be concerning simply cases of “possession”…

I can see your point. Thanks.

Have you ever submitted a dubium? Is such a dubium likely to be considered?

 

[Bookcat]

I can see your point. Thanks.

Have you ever submitted a dubium? Is such a dubium likely to be considered?

No I have not. I had a friend who did though.

A Bishop would be best for this level of a question would likely get the more authoritative response.

 

[BluesPicker]

No. Whatever his role as exorcist (and I am not saying he is the “head Vatican Exorcist” --I leave that to the Church to clarify as to his role) --he is NOT part Teaching Office of the Catholic Church. He is NOT part thus of the Magisterium.

Exorcists and Theologians can disagree with one another on various topics.

Opinions on interpretation of a document is well – opinions on interpretation of a document.

For an authoritative interpretation one may send a dubium to the CDF.

You may ask ones Bishop to so it is more of an authoritative dubium.

It is important to note that “asserted conversations” regarding a particular topic are “asserted conversations” (I am not saying anyone is “lying” of course…). We are not privy to the conversation (to the exact words and content). And things can be later misunderstood by others etc etc…so not always the best source of information (just think of the conversations that get reported and discussed in the media --which necessitates the Vatican to clarify that such and such is not truly the case).

For us to get an authoritative interpretation one would now goto the office that has the competency to interpret the document authoritatively --in another authoritative document.

I just called my spiritual director who is a Catholic Exorcist Priest and studied in Rome. He verified that my understanding plus the understanding of the Priest I quoted is what he learned in Rome.
Before I would write your conjectures I would look within myself rather than assert that Priests who are in good standing in the church and leaders in the field don’t understand Cannon Law.

 

[Hineni59]

I have been a part of 2 diocesan deliverance ministries for the last 5 years. I am now working with a Catholic prayer partner and we have an apostolate deliverance ministry. We use and have been given the ok to use the Pope Leo XIII prayer as a MINOR exorcism prayer for ourselves and in breaking any manifestations or harassments by the enemy and his minions. Works so well that if we know someone has any occult experience we automatically say this prayer. Cuts out a lot of nonsense!!! ANY practicing Catholic can say minor exorcism prayers. We are commanded by Jesus to preach the gospel, heal the sick and cast out demons. Let’s be about our Father’s business.