Language Concerning Salvation

[CRUSADER_KING]

I often hear people rightly say that we cannot say a specific person is in Hell (except I’ve heard valid arguments about Judas’ judgement). However, I also see a lot of people making claims that people are in Heaven (usually concerning loved ones or acquaintances). Excluding canonized saints, wouldn’t this judgement be just as unjustified as the declaration that someone is in Hell? I can acknowledge and understand that people may do this out of grief, but shouldn’t we criticize these judgements just as harshly? Does the Church condemn these judgements?

 

[BartholomewB]

The different intention is significant, I think. When you tell your kids, “Grandad has gone to heaven,” you are being charitable to their grandad’s memory as well as to them, by making it easier for them to adjust to a sad new reality. Not so when you say of someone you had reason to dislike, “I hope he’s burning in hell!”

 

[Beryllos]

… shouldn’t we criticize these judgements just as harshly? Does the Church condemn these judgements?

No, I don’t think we should, and no, I don’t think the Church does.

One thing is certain, that God’s love and power are beyond our understanding.

If we were to say that someone is in Hell, we would be saying “If I were God, that person would be in Hell,” but of course we are not God. We are unable to grasp God’s thoughts or comprehend the limits of his mercy. “For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, my thoughts higher than your thoughts” (Isaiah 55:9).

In truth and humility we could say “If I were God, I would do anything so that that person could be with me in Heaven.” Thus it may be acceptable to believe that someone we love, and whom God loves much more, is in Heaven.

Great topic!

 

[Tis_Bearself]

I can acknowledge and understand that people may do this out of grief, but shouldn’t we criticize these judgements just as harshly?

No, the person is in grief. The Christian response, if you don’t want to agree and say, “Yes, I’m sure he’s in heaven” would be to just nod and say “He was a good man” or “You are in my prayers” or something noncommittal.

Does the Church condemn these judgements?

No, we are permitted to have hope that our loved ones are in Heaven. Some of us might even have a private revelation that our loved ones are in Heaven.

If we tell a priest, then he will likely say, “That may very well be. God may very well have taken him to heaven.” If we ask the priest, “How can I know for sure that my loved one is in Heaven?” he will say, “We can’t know for sure while we’re on this earth, but we can have great hope, and trust in the Lord, so just pray and have hope and trust in the Lord.”

The only time the Church would speak out against someone saying a loved one was in Heaven would be if the person speaking was doing so publicly as a prophet or trying to raise money or claiming they saw Marian apparitions or something…a Bayside, Queens type scenario where people were being led astray. The Church is not going to come down on some poor grieving relative who had a dream that that her spouse or child was in Heaven and told it to her priest and a couple close friends.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

We are permitted to say, “I have good reason to think that my grandmother (or spouse, parent, child, friend etc) is in Heaven” and pray for their intercession. In fact, that is the position of the Church with regard to everybody who isn’t a canonized saint, so it’s the same whether we’re discussing my grandmother or Ven. Fulton Sheen. Assuming that my grandmother was indeed a good person, of course, and not Hitler or Stalin or someone scandalous like that.

 

[Dan_Defender]

shouldn’t we criticize these judgements just as harshly?

No. We are encouraged to have Hope. In fact, Hope for eternal life is the beginning and end of our faith.

 

[VanitasVanitatum]

Not being a Hitler is bad standard.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

I think you understand what I meant when I said “not scandalous”.

I’m not interested in a discussion of “standards”, sorry.