F
Fox
Guest
Does the Holy See prefer a Latin Catholic to not attend an Eastern Mass and vica versa? If so, why if we are truly the universal church? It should not matter which Rite Mass you go to. Your thoughts on this?
- Status
S
StMarkEofE
Guest
I was told that it shouldnt make any difference when I was posting on a Byzantine website not too long ago. I think what may cause some problems is permanently crossing over from Latin to Byzantine rite for this would require I believe a bishops blessing.
StMarkEofE
F
Fox
Guest
Why would there be a problem if you decided to change? we are all one church, maybe we’ll get some other responses.
S
StMarkEofE
Guest
I personally can not answer this but I am sure someone in the Byzantine Catholic or Eastern Catholic rites can answer it.Why would there be a problem if you decided to change? we are all one church, maybe we’ll get some other responses.
StMarkEofE
D
Deacon_Ed
Guest
It doesn’t matter where one attends the liturgy, whether it is the Mass of the Latin Rite, the Divine Liturgy of the Byzantine Rite, or any of the other Eastern Rites. We are one Church, Catholic is Catholic.
Membership, however, is important as it sets the tone for one’s spiritual life. Therefore, the Church is careful to moderate the desire to change ritual Churches. This is not to say that one cannot decide, for example, that they want to be a “functional Maronite” by simply attending only the Maronite Church. That’s perfectly acceptable and no change of ritual Church is required.
Deacon Ed
W
wynd
Guest
If one were to become a “functional Maronite” (or anything else) by only attending another rite, he is still bound by the canons of his “birth” rite, correct?
M
mgy100
Guest
About the only thing you can’t do if you don’t change rites is get ordained. If you were a Maronite by “paper” and wanted to be ordained a Latin priest, well, you would have to get your rite changed.
F
Fox
Guest
and how do you change your Rite, does the Latin Bishop have to give his blessing or does the Eastern rRte and Latin Rite bishops get together or something?
F
Friar_David_O.Carm
Guest
That is true, you are also bound by the Holy Days of your Church and you must seek that Sacraments of Initiation for your children in your Church, I believe.
F
Friar_David_O.Carm
Guest
I believe that you must write letters to both bishops.
Your current bishop must release you and your new bishop must accept you.
H
Hesychios
Guest
Technically true, although the mandate is normally overlooked by “almost everybody”. It isn’t practical to attempt it most of the time.
There are now two Codes of Canon Law, one for the Latin church and one for the rest. There are some interesting differences between them, worth a thread of their own IMO.
There are no provisions I know of that excuse a Latin from each of the Roman Catholic ‘Holy Days of Obligation’, for example. But to be a functioning Maronite, Melkite or Syro-Malankar Christian involves following the calendar of those churches, including Feasts and fasts. It cannot really be done without a total commitment.
For instance Lent starts at different times in different churches, which one will you do? Many Eastern Catholics do a ‘Friday fast’ on Wednesday too! And Advent is two weeks longer in the Byzantine tradition than it is in the Latin. Fasts are much stricter in the East, it requires some effort to become familiar with the practice as it involves a dietary change for most people.
The Latin church has just about dropped the public practice of praying the Hours (except behind the walls of cenobitic communities and in other settings like third orders) but the Byzantine rite churches will ideally have daily Matins and Vespers if possible. Especially on Saturday evening.
Latin rite worshippers are accustomed to daily Mass, but that would not be normal in the Byzantine tradition, especially during the penitential season of Lent.
If one is seriously interested in changing jurisdictions, it is necessary to live according to the calendar of the new church for a significant period (the Byzantine Ruthenian Eparchy of Parma requires one year usually, the Eparchy of Passaic requires three years as I understand it) so technically you would be Latin all of that time.
Then you write a letter to the Eparch asking to be received into the church under his Omophor. If he approves he will send the letter to your Roman Catholic bishop to clarify your status and approve your transfer. The Roman bishop will look for the church records to make sure you really are Catholic in good standing (no official excommunications or other alarming details). Then he signs off and you are cleared for reception into the new church, you would probably be expected to sign a “book of Life” or some kind of register in the pastors office and have a “sponsor” or two being a member of the parish who knows you, but there is no ceremony and no sacrament for the change.
Until abouut fiteen years ago (perhaps twenty) all such requests were handled and approved in Rome and still involved the two bishops or the Nuncio. (very time consuming paper shuffling) These days the Vatican doesn’t want to be bogged down with this clerical task but wishes to retain ‘authority’ over the process, if the two bishops approve the approval of the Vatican can be presumed.
Some people write their letters with criticism of the Latin church as reasoning for the change, that’s a big no-no. Such a letter will be rejected outright, the move must be a positive one toward living the life of an Eastern Catholic to it’s fullest possibilities.
F
Fox
Guest
I will look into this more indeed.
S
stanley123
Guest
I know some Latin Catholics that are discouraged by the liturgical changes in the Latin Church, such as the clown Mass, Communion in the hand, women giving out Communion and giving “talks” during the Mass, rock Masses with hand clapping and Peter, Paul and Mary guitar music, dancing girls at the altar, etc. According to what you have said here they would not be welcome to change to an Eastern rite Catholic Church if they mentioned what has been bothering them about the changes in the Latin Church? I did hear, though, of cases where some of them were officially welcomed by the E. Orthodox Church, even after expressing such criticisms of the present day Latin liturgy.
F
Fox
Guest
I am looking myself into grass roots Catholicism, and to me, the Latin Rite, seems to me, is infested with liberialism and what you were talking about Stan.
I feel, in my heart, that the Eastern Rites have a firm grasp and is one of our last bastions of traditional Catholicism.
I have been to many Latin Rites Masses, since I am a Latin Rite, and I have seen so many abuses and no one listens to me. The only time I felt at peace was at a Tridentine Masses I have been to and those are few and far in between.
I am a traditionalist and it seems to me that the Eastern Rites value our Tradition more.
I feel, in my heart, that the Eastern Rites have a firm grasp and is one of our last bastions of traditional Catholicism.
I have been to many Latin Rites Masses, since I am a Latin Rite, and I have seen so many abuses and no one listens to me. The only time I felt at peace was at a Tridentine Masses I have been to and those are few and far in between.
I am a traditionalist and it seems to me that the Eastern Rites value our Tradition more.
H
Hesychios
Guest
Yes, I don’t know if there are ‘official’ guidelines on this anywhere but it is common knowledge that these requests are rejected. I suspect that the Vatican had always witheld approval when they were more directly involved, but I wouldn’t expect the Latin bishop to be very happy to read such things either.
In any case the individuals who feel that they have some justified complaints about the RC church and wish to transfer to an EC church would be wise to not mention these complaints in the letter.
It works in the world like that too, if the only reason a jobseeker can give for wanting to work in your company is that they don’t like or respect their current boss, the situation is not showing a lot of promise.
Well, that’s a major source of converts to Orthodoxy. Orthodox don’t care if one is unhappy with the Western liturgy, it just confirms what they had expected to hear!
Some people equate a poor liturgy with poor theology. If they should lose confidence in their own hierarchy or it’s teachings they may be looking out for something they can really believe in.
It seems to me that there has been a steady stream of Protestant converts to Orthodoxy through the Bible, and another steady stream of Catholic converts to Orthodoxy through the liturgy.
Many Roman catholics become interested in Eastern catholicism because of the liturgical practices. They are not ‘converting’ in any real sense because they retain the Roman catholic teachings on the inside, however innapropriate that may be. This can be problematic because the liturgy itself will proclaim Eastern theology if the worshipper pays any attention at all. Some people may undergo a ‘Catholic syncretism’ and combine the Eastern and Western theologies in an odd or inconsistent way. Ideally they would study Eastern spirituality, theology and practice and absorb it totally.
This doesn’t happen to be an issue when a Catholic converts to Orthodoxy because the individual must become a catechumen and study, accept spiritual direction and absorb the teachings of the church or they will not be found acceptable and will not be Chrismated.
- Status