Latin Mass vs New Mass

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Please place your vote as to your preference for Mass attendance. 🙂
 
I did not vote on this as I see it as divisive and disobedient to the Magisterium.
The Norvos Ordo is the Correct Mass as well as the Tridentine rite when celebrated by approved Priests (Priestly Fraternity of St Peter and to those with an induilt).
I have heard the new new Mass as in the English translation being Faithful to the latin and it really is beautiful. I cant wait before it is finalised by Vox Clara and Cardinal Pell and the Holy father directs all in the english speaking world to follow suit.
I think/Know your gonna love it!!!
You could try what we have with our chaplain and that is the Norvos Ordo in latin except for readinds, the Gospel is sung and the Priest faces East. Its cool :dancing:
 
I would agree with the above. This poll shows little understanding for what is the Holy Mass.

I have not voted either.
 
I voted Latin Mass only because it is the one I am most used to. I believe one can have a preference and not be divisive as long as one remains faithful to the Magisterium of the Church. Both are valid and licit, however, some may obtain greater spiritual benefit from the New Mass and some from the Old. I love them both. There is much more active participation in the New. Likewise there is much less room for variance in the Old. Both, I think, have advantages and disadvantages in the temporal realm but both have the same spiritual value, and that is the most important aspect of any Mass. By the way I am a recovering sede vacantist. I could sure use your prayers for my family- they have not fully come around yet and I think my 16yr. old son is terrified of the New Mass thanks to the lies we have been fed since we decided to become Catholic ten years ago.
 
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moosears:
By the way I am a recovering sede vacantist. I could sure use your prayers for my family- they have not fully come around yet and I think my 16yr. old son is terrified of the New Mass thanks to the lies we have been fed since we decided to become Catholic ten years ago.
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You have my prayers, friend.

Please learn one thing from this post. Its not a new Mass, its the Mass with revised rubrics.
 
This is true God does not see Tridentine Rite or Novus Ordo Missae. All He sees is the Holy Sacrifice of The Mass. Why is it so easy for us to lose sght of this fundamental truth. Thanks for the enlightenment! :cool:
Adjutorium nostrum in nomine Domini
(Our help is in the name of the Lord)
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Please what is meant by “New Mass”???:confused: Are you refering to Post Vatican II Traditional Mass or the New unconventional Mass, that resembles more of a “Broadway Show”.
 
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kaymart:
Please what is meant by “New Mass”???:confused: Are you refering to Post Vatican II Traditional Mass or the New unconventional Mass, that resembles more of a “Broadway Show”.
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The Mass of Paul VI, promulgated by him as Vicar of Christ on Earth, and celebrated by four popes now. I also didn’t vote. I see polls/threads like this as more stirring of the cat’s litter pan, more of a widening of division in the Church, which surely cannot be Our Lord’s good Will.
 
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Fergal:
Please learn one thing from this post. Its not a new Mass, its the Mass with revised rubrics.
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:amen:
Are we also going to decide contraception, divorce and remarriage, etc., by vote?
 
The poll does indicate what preferences people have. In many areas the Tridentine Latin Mass, the Novus Ordo Mass in latin, and the Novus Ordo Mass in the vernacular are available. The poll does give a bishop an idea of what to plan. If a bishop is closing parishes while a few Tridentine churches are packed to the gills, I would think he would want to know. Or if the converse is true, he might want to adjust accordingly.

Popularity should not determine dogma, but if there are two alternatives in line with the Vatican, why not try to find out what people want? :bowdown:
  • Kathie :clapping:
 
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harinkj:
The poll does indicate what preferences people have. In many areas the Tridentine Latin Mass, the Novus Ordo Mass in latin, and the Novus Ordo Mass in the vernacular are available. The poll does give a bishop an idea of what to plan. If a bishop is closing parishes while a few Tridentine churches are packed to the gills, I would think he would want to know. Or if the converse is true, he might want to adjust accordingly.

Popularity should not determine dogma, but if there are two alternatives in line with the Vatican, why not try to find out what people want? :bowdown:
  • Kathie :clapping:
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The people who want the TLM are supposed to manifest that desire to their bishop or he’s supposed to be pastoral enough to be able to “detect” it or inquire about it. These polls are repeated over and over on these threads. If bishops read these posts, then they know. The purpose for these polls doesn’t seem to be informing bishops, however.
 
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JKirkLVNV:
These polls are repeated over and over on these threads. If bishops read these posts, then they know.
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These polls have little value as an indicator of anything, expecially when they are done as a public poll. Add the biased language of “New Mass” and you have even less validity. The first choice was not labeled “Old Mass”, was it? It was also not the “Latin Mass” or the “Vernacular Mass.”

Most of us know the choices, but wording does make a difference in response, especially in public polls.
 
I would actually take issue with some of the above posts because they lack some liturgical understanding concerning the way in which liturgy develops and is understood by the Church. Pope Paul VI made it very clear that we are to be very precise in our language so we should start there.

The problem with the poll in general is that it neglects to point out that all liturgies of the Latin Church are to be celebrated in latin unless permission is given from the Holy See to do otherwise such as in the Novus Ordo and the Anglican Usage. So, the term latin mass is an inert term. However, not to split too many hairs we all know that what was ment was the Tridentine Liturgy.

An above post stated that the Novus Ordo was the same mass just modified. This is not a correct statement. The developement of the Novus Ordo by committee is strictly not an out growth of the Tridentine Liturgy but is rather a conglomeration of multiple ancient rites of the Church with some new inovations. The Tridentien Liturgy was an organic growth from the old Roman Rite with minor modifications done by Pope Pius V. To equate the two liturgies as being one from the other is rather vulgar.

I will have more to say later but I will leave it at that for now except to mention that polls like this express the frustration that Bishops even when they are informed by the desires of their flock of the need of a Tridentine Liturgy in a Diocese they are deaf to the request and have in large ignored the request of John Paul II in Ecclesia Dei. Hence polls like this are an outlet for seemingly understandable frustration.
 
The post by Mosher is accurate and intelligently presented. I’m in total agreement with him.

I would like to also point out, in the General Instruction on the Roman Missal (GIRM), a documented often quoted in regards to liturgal abuses experienced in various celebrations of the Novus Ordo, the Preamble states very clearly the relationship of the Novus Ordo with the Triditine Rite. A relationship which actually shows the continuity of the Novus Ordo not just with the Triditine Rite but with the total development of the Liturgy through out the history of the Church back to Apostolic Times.

I think it would be wise if we all read it now and then.
 
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mosher:
Hence polls like this are an outlet for seemingly understandable frustration.
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Hence polls like this MAY be an outlet for seemingly understandable frustration. They MAY also simply be stirring the cat box. Those of us who have spent a long time on these threads have seen the same polls (or close enough) placed by people wanting to denigrate the Mass of Paul VI. I think that’s why it’s helpful to do a search of the threads to see if perhaps the subject has been dealt with in any exhaustive way. This one’s been dealt with ad nauseum.
 
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JKirkLVNV:
Hence polls like this MAY be an outlet for seemingly understandable frustration. They MAY also simply be stirring the cat box. Those of us who have spent a long time on these threads have seen the same polls (or close enough) placed by people wanting to denigrate the Mass of Paul VI. I think that’s why it’s helpful to do a search of the threads to see if perhaps the subject has been dealt with in any exhaustive way. This one’s been dealt with ad nauseum.
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Agreed, I am a member of several other boards that have and continue to deal with this topic ad nauseum. However, one would think that if it were truly as you say “dealt with in any exhaustive way” then this would no longer be a question save for those who have undue emotional attachment to the older rites of the Church. However, as we all know this issue has not been delt with even on the level of the Ecclesia Dei Commission to the extent that there is some form of resolution and mutual understanding so I cannot see the harm of rehashing the topic until that resolution has been reached. the beauty of freedom is that one is not obligated to enter into what one considers a distasteful, laborious, or absurd conversation unless they actually desire to engage in the conversation. For my part I believe that the work of healing old wounds in this area is worth the hard drive storage space.
 
Everyone is at the new mass, its the ordinary mass of the Catholic Church.

The Latin mass is fine, but its not really as catholic as the mainstream mass, as its only available to a portion of the church, it sort of has the impression of being a tad elitist.

I don’t think the people in attendance think they are elite, but thats what it looks like to the outside world.
 
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mosher:
Agreed, I am a member of several other boards that have and continue to deal with this topic ad nauseum. However, one would think that if it were truly as you say “dealt with in any exhaustive way” then this would no longer be a question save for those who have undue emotional attachment to the older rites of the Church. However, as we all know this issue has not been delt with even on the level of the Ecclesia Dei Commission to the extent that there is some form of resolution and mutual understanding so I cannot see the harm of rehashing the topic until that resolution has been reached. the beauty of freedom is that one is not obligated to enter into what one considers a distasteful, laborious, or absurd conversation unless they actually desire to engage in the conversation. For my part I believe that the work of healing old wounds in this area is worth the hard drive storage space.
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BUT…how best to find, as you say, resolution? I’ve always said (look at my posts) that it should be as the old Holy Father wished: a generous application of the Indult. Why haven’t the bishops complied, by and large? Frankly, I’ve no idea! Maybe they don’t have the man power or resources to train the man power, maybe they’d like to and are trying to set it up and it’s going slowly. Maybe they’re as balky as old mules! Shouldn’t people who want the Indult be talking to their bishops? Or the Apostolic Legate? Or the Holy See? That doesn’t seem the point for many of the threads that compare the “Old and New Mass,” though. Most of the threads seem more interested in comparing the two to the denigration of the Mass of Paul VI. Those of us who worship at altars where the Mass of Paul VI is offered reverently and without abuse begin to find this tiresome. That’s why I use the phrase “stirring the cat box.” There seems to be an agenda less noble than the one you exhibit. I’m not commenting on the OP’s purpose, as he or she alone knows why he or she initiated the thread (God would also know). But surely you can see what I mean? BTW, I note you live in the Albuquerque area. I taught 11 years in Crownpoint, NM, on the Navajo Reservation. I hope to retire in Albquerque someday (too hot here!). Can you tell me anything about Our Lady of Fatima parish? Orthodox? I visited several times when in Burky, but it’s hard to get a sense on just visits.
 
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JKirkLVNV:
BUT…how best to find, as you say, resolution? I’ve always said (look at my posts) that it should be as the old Holy Father wished: a generous application of the Indult. Why haven’t the bishops complied, by and large? Frankly, I’ve no idea! Maybe they don’t have the man power or resources to train the man power, maybe they’d like to and are trying to set it up and it’s going slowly. Maybe they’re as balky as old mules! Shouldn’t people who want the Indult be talking to their bishops? Or the Apostolic Legate? Or the Holy See? That doesn’t seem the point for many of the threads that compare the “Old and New Mass,” though. Most of the threads seem more interested in comparing the two to the denigration of the Mass of Paul VI. Those of us who worship at altars where the Mass of Paul VI is offered reverently and without abuse begin to find this tiresome. That’s why I use the phrase “stirring the cat box.” There seems to be an agenda less noble than the one you exhibit. I’m not commenting on the OP’s purpose, as he or she alone knows why he or she initiated the thread (God would also know). But surely you can see what I mean? BTW, I note you live in the Albuquerque area. I taught 11 years in Crownpoint, NM, on the Navajo Reservation. I hope to retire in Albquerque someday (too hot here!). Can you tell me anything about Our Lady of Fatima parish? Orthodox? I visited several times when in Burky, but it’s hard to get a sense on just visits.
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I understand your point however those of us who sympathize with those who desire the Tridentine or other older rites of the Church know that what you are suggest has been done and continues to be done and most Bishops ignore it or actually attack outwardly or implicitly those who desire to have an “indult mass” celebrated in their area. The recent work of Bishop Olmstead in the diocese of Phoenix is a good example of how it is very easy and very possible to have a number of priests trained to celebrate the Tridentine Mass and the number of attendees is swelling. The rejection that is receieved by most of these people by their bishops is what causes a lot of the anger and hostility that is found in their numbers because they are being rejected by their spiritual father. It is actually quite troubling. All that is left is a grassroots movement to help the bishops make better decisions that are in key with Ecclesia Dei.

As far as Our Lady of Fatima is concerned - it is unfortunate to say but it has become one of the most liberal parishes in the Albuquerque area along with Risen Savior, Prince of Peace, John XXIII, Holy Rosary, Holy Ghost, St. Jude’s et al. There are not many good choices in the Archdiocese for parishes that are orthodox. My recomendation to everyone coming to Albuquerque is that they attend St. Thomas Aquinas in Rio Rancho. It is the largest parish in the Archdiocese because it is Orthodox and alive in the sense that it just built a school and has perpetual adoration. Msgr. Raun is a fabulous pastor and one can never go wrong at that parish.
 
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