Latin Vulgate cannon?

[Murray1105]

I have been considering getting a copy of the Latin Vulgate. All of them that I have found include the expanded Deuterocanon: Psalm 151, Epistle to the Laodiceans, 3 & 4 Esdras, and the Prayer of Manasses. This was the Bible approved by the Council of Trent to my knowledge. Well I just would like to know why they were approved in the vulgate and we don’t have them in our Bibles. I know also that some Orthodox Church’s have some of those books and others like 3rd and 4th Maccabees. Any info on the Vulgate’s history would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Cluny]

Which Vulgate did you order?

The Clementine Vulgate?

Or the Nova Biblia Vulgata?

Both are actually post-Tridentine.

 

[Murray1105]

The “Biblia Sacra Vulgata” is the only one I have seen.

 

[NHInsider]

And it has thought it meet that a list of the sacred books be inserted in this decree, lest a doubt may arise in any one’s mind, which are the books that are received by this Synod. They are as set down here below:

Of the Old Testament: the five books of Moses, to wit, Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy; Josue, Judges, Ruth, four books of Kings, two of Paralipomenon, the first book of Esdras, and the second which is entitled Nehemias; Tobias, Judith, Esther, Job, the Davidical Psalter, consisting of a hundred and fifty psalms; the Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, the Canticle of Canticles, Wisdom, Ecclesiasticus, Isaias, Jeremias, with Baruch; Ezechiel, Daniel; the twelve minor prophets, to wit, Osee, Joel, Amos, Abdias, Jonas, Micheas, Nahum, Habacuc, Sophonias, Aggaeus, Zacharias, Malachias; two books of the Machabees, the first and the second.

Of the New Testament: the four Gospels, according to Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John; the Acts of the Apostles written by Luke the Evangelist; fourteen epistles of Paul the apostle, (one) to the Romans, two to the Corinthians, (one) to the Galatians, to the Ephesians, to the Philippians, to the Colossians, two to the Thessalonians, two to Timothy, (one) to Titus, to Philemon, to the Hebrews; two of Peter the apostle, three of John the apostle, one of the apostle James, one of Jude the apostle, and the Apocalypse of John the apostle.

 

[Omyo12]

I have been considering getting a copy of the Latin Vulgate. All of them that I have found include the expanded Deuterocanon: Psalm 151, Epistle to the Laodiceans, 3 & 4 Esdras, and the Prayer of Manasses. This was the Bible approved by the Council of Trent to my knowledge. Well I just would like to know why they were approved in the vulgate and we don’t have them in our Bibles. I know also that some Orthodox Church’s have some of those books and others like 3rd and 4th Maccabees. Any info on the Vulgate’s history would be greatly appreciated.

At the Council of Trent, the modern Catholic canon was approved and a critical version of the Vulgate was commissioned. This was the Clementine Vulgate

The Council of Trent did not list Psalm 151, Epistle to the Laodiceans, 3 & 4 Esdras, or the Prayer of Manasses as canonical.

It kept the traditional canon set forth at the Council of Rome in the 4th century

However, Psalm 151, the Epistle to the Laodiceans, 3 & 4 Esdras, and the Prayer of Manasse were placed at the appendix of the Vulgate for historical purposes (much like how early Reformers placed the Deuterocanonal books at the appendix of their Bibles).

The Biblia Sacra Vulgata is a scholarly attempt to reconstruct St. Jerome’s Latin Vulgate of the 4th century.

 

[Ron_Conte]

The term Biblia Sacra Vulgata does not tell you which Latin version or which edition it is.

There are several Latin editions free online here:
sacredbible.org/index.htm
including an edition that has all of the differences between the
Pope Sixtus V 1590 edition and the
Pope Clement VIII 1592, 93, 98 editions

There are also some more recent edits of the Bible on that site,
including my edit,
and also the Tweedale edit (approved by the Bishops Conference of England and Wales).

If you do not know Latin very well, there is also this edition
sacredbible.org/studybible/index.htm
that has a line of Latin Vulgate text and a line of English translation

 

[Omyo12]

The term Biblia Sacra Vulgata does not tell you which Latin version or which edition it is.

There are several Latin editions free online here:
sacredbible.org/index.htm
including an edition that has all of the differences between the
Pope Sixtus V 1590 edition and the
Pope Clement VIII 1592, 93, 98 editions

There are also some more recent edits of the Bible on that site,
including my edit,
and also the Tweedale edit (approved by the Bishops Conference of England and Wales).

If you do not know Latin very well, there is also this edition
sacredbible.org/studybible/index.htm
that has a line of Latin Vulgate text and a line of English translation

The term “Biblia Sacra Vulgata” is generally understood to mean the “Stuttgart” edition.

Deutsche Bibelgesellschaft publishes:

Biblia Hebraica (now in its 4th edition revised, called Stuttgartensia)
Septuaginta (in its 3rd edition)
Novum Testamentum Graece (in its 27th edition, also called Nestle Aland)
Biblia Sacra Vulgata (in its 5th edition)

 

[Ron_Conte]

The term “Biblia Sacra Vulgata” is generally understood to mean the “Stuttgart” edition.

Not at all true.

The Vulgate has always been used to refer to the Catholic Latin Scriptural tradition. Vulgate is from the Latin meaning common, so this refers to the the common version used by the Church.

Biblia - Bible (literally, books)
Sacra - Sacred
Vugata - common

The Stuttgart is a Protestant scholarly edition never in common useage by Catholics (and not used much by Protestants, except some scholars). Also, the term Vulgate is an ancient term, whereas the Stuttgart was published in the 1970s (75 for 2nd edition).

 

[Omyo12]

Not at all true.

The Vulgate has always been used to refer to the Catholic Latin Scriptural tradition. Vulgate is from the Latin meaning common, so this refers to the the common version used by the Church.

Biblia - Bible (literally, books)
Sacra - Sacred
Vugata - common

The Stuttgart is a Protestant scholarly edition never in common useage by Catholics (and not used much by Protestants, except some scholars). Also, the term Vulgate is an ancient term, whereas the Stuttgart was published in the 1970s (75 for 2nd edition).

I know that…

However, when a lay person just says “Biblia Sacra Vulgata” they are usually referring to the Stuttgart Edition, many times just called “the Stuttgart Vulgate”

Then there’s the “Biblia Sacra Vulgatæ Editionis Sixti Quinti Pontificis Maximi iussu recognita atque edita” and its various ediitons, usually just called the “Clementine Vulgate”

Then there’s the “Bibliorum Sacrorum nova vulgata editio” called “Nova Vulgata”

You can give your little definitions, but generally, the term “Biblia Sacra Vulgata” is taken to mean the Stuttgart Vulgate.

For the Vulgate in general, people just say “the Latin Vulgate”

It’s like saying:
Novum- New
Testamentum- Testament
Graece - Greek

Therefore, the term Novum Testamentum Graece does not usually refer to the Nestle Aland 27th edition…

or

Biblia - Bible (literally books)
Hebraica- Hebrew

Therefore, the term Biblia Hebraica does not usually refer to the various Hebrew Bible editions published by Deutsche Bibelgesellschaft…

 

[Ron_Conte]

However, when a lay person just says “Biblia Sacra Vulgata” they are usually referring to the Stuttgart Edition, many times just called “the Stuttgart Vulgate”

You can give your little definitions, but generally, the term “Biblia Sacra Vulgata” is taken to mean the Stuttgart Vulgate.

For the Vulgate in general, people just say “the Latin Vulgate”

When a Catholic lay person says ‘Biblia Sacra Vulgata’ they are NOT generally referring to the 1975 Protestant Latin Bible published by the German Bible Society. The term Biblia Sacra Vulgata has been used to refer to the various editions of the Latin Vulgate in the Catholic Church for many centuries, for well over a thousand years. It is absurd and patently false to claim that Catholics generally use that term to refer to a Protestant Latin edition that has never been in common usage, which is what the term Vulgata means.

 

[Murray1105]

So does anybody know if the “Biblia Sacra Vulgata ISBN: 978-1598561784” is a good catholic translation or not? If that is not a faithful catholic translation then where can I get one? I currently know nohting in latin but would like to start learning.

 

[Ron_Conte]

So does anybody know if the “Biblia Sacra Vulgata ISBN: 978-1598561784” is a good catholic translation or not? If that is not a faithful catholic translation then where can I get one? I currently know nohting in latin but would like to start learning.

The editor of that edition is Fischer, who edited the Stuttgart edition. That is the 1980 edition, though. It is not a Catholic edition of the Latin Vulgate.

There are several Catholic Latin editions here:
sacredbible.org/
Including a Latin English version that has a line of Latin and a line of translation from the Latin, which should help in learning Biblical Latin.

There is a side by side Latin English edition in print here:
baroniuspress.com/book.php?wid=56&bid=50

And a recent Vulgate edit approved by the Bishops of England and Wales here:
vulsearch.sourceforge.net/html/index.html
available on line and in print.

 

[David_Zampino]

The editor of that edition is Fischer, who edited the Stuttgart edition. That is the 1980 edition, though. It is not a Catholic edition of the Latin Vulgate.

There are several Catholic Latin editions here:
sacredbible.org/
Including a Latin English version that has a line of Latin and a line of translation from the Latin, which should help in learning Biblical Latin.

What Ron isn’t telling you, Murray1105, is that this “Catholic” “Latin” edition is his own translation, approved by no Magisterial authority of which I am aware. Just some FYI.

 

[Omyo12]

So does anybody know if the “Biblia Sacra Vulgata ISBN: 978-1598561784” is a good catholic translation or not? If that is not a faithful catholic translation then where can I get one? I currently know nohting in latin but would like to start learning.

Murray1105,

For starters, the Stuttgart Vulgate is NOT a new Protestant translation but an academic critical edition of the Latin Vulgate put together by looking at ancient manuscripts of the Latin Vulgate.

The main critical source for it was the Codex Amiatinus, which is the oldest complete manuscript of the Latin Vulgate from around 692 AD

If you’re just starting to learn Latin, I do NOT recommend this edition. Not because I think it’s evil, but because the spelling is somewhat different from that of late medieval Latin. (like I said, the main source is from the late 7th century)
It also lacks punctuation marks so sentences are noted by line breaks (as found in ancient manuscripts)

Also, it has 2 versions of the Psalms (printed on opposing pages for comparison)

The first is the traditional versio Gallicana which is the one used in Gregorian chants and found in the Latin Vulgate when it was completed in the 4th century. St. Jerome originally translated this version from the Greek Septuagint.

The other is the versio juxta Hebraicum which was the last Psalter St. Jerome translated and this was translated from the Hebrew.

The Stuttgart is Catholic in respect to manuscripts used, but Protestant in respect to who put together. However, the Protestant scholars did NOT change things in regard to Catholic interpretation. (its not a new translation)

So Luke 1:28 reads: “have gratia plena Dominus tecum benedicta tu in mulieribus”
translated:
“Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with you, blessed are you among women.”

The Stuttgart edition also has St. Jerome’s prologue to the Bible

In any case, I’d first recommend the Nova Vulgata since it’s the official Roman Catholic bible. It’s hard to find, but you can read it for free online on the Vatican website
vatican.va/archive/bible/nova_vulgata/documents/nova-vulgata_index_lt.html

It’s a revision of the Clementine Vulgate based on the Hebrew/Greek, but retains the traditions of the Vulgate. It started off as a revision of the Psalms mandated by the Sacrosanctum Concilium during the Second Vatican Council. Pope Pius VI then commissioned that the entire Vulgate be revised in the same manner.

What Ron isn’t telling you, Murray1105, is that this “Catholic” “Latin” edition is his own translation, approved by no Magisterial authority of which I am aware. Just some FYI.

Maybe he’s just trying to promote his work…

 

[Ron_Conte]

For Catholic scholars, the preeminent Latin editions of the Bible are four editions:

The 1590 Latin Vulgate of Pope Sixtus V (he actually worked on the edition as one of the scholars, and it was published under his authority by the Holy See)

And three editions were published under Pope Clement VIII, in 1592, 93, and 98, by the authority of the Holy See.

The 1598 edition is of particular interest and importance, because it represents the culmination of this process of making a new edition of the Latin Vulgate, in response (at last) to the teachings of Trent on the importance of the Latin Scriptural tradition. Nearly all Latin editions of the Bible since have been edits of the Clementine Vulgate (as the 1598 edition is called).

My website has all four editions, in the form of the Leander van Ess 1822 to 1824 text, which compares all four editions and notes all the differences. There is also the Vercellone 1861 edition, and the 1914 Hetzenauer edition. And there is a link to the the recent Tweedalte edit of the Clementine Vulgate, which is public domain and which is approved by the Bishops Conference of England and Wales.

I don’t recommend the Nova Vulgata.

 

[Omyo12]

I don’t recommend the Nova Vulgata.

Why not?

 

[David_Zampino]

Why not?

On the basis of his personal opinion – which again, is supported neither by scholarship, nor Church authority.

 

[tee_eff_em]

So does anybody know if the “Biblia Sacra Vulgata ISBN: 978-1598561784” is a good catholic translation or not? If that is not a faithful catholic translation then where can I get one? I currently know nohting in latin but would like to start learning.

Another source for a hardcopy Catholic Vulgate is the American Classical League.

tee