Law and Religion

[ThePhilosopher2]

I have great disagreements with the Church (not on infallibly taught issues) regarding politics. Of course this isn’t really a difference as to believing what humans should do and how we should treat one another, but, rather what involvement that the government should have in this. It is my firm belief that the government shouldn’t require morality, because morality cannot come through force. One can only act morally if he or she has the option of NOT acting morally. I suppose I should qualify this statement by saying that the government must stop people from harming one another or harming/taking another’s property. Therefore I believe that murder, theft, rape, etc., etc. are quite legitimately outlawed, and the prohibition of this things should be enforced. But there are things such as drugs, prostitution, and (yes) gay marriage that should not be under the providence of the government. Nor should wage laws or any the most minimal taxes. Social programs are immoral. They essentially amount to the government taking money from people without giving them a choice (theft) and giving it to others. Would it be considered sinful if I forced another person, with the threat of imprisonment, to give me money so that I could give it to poor people? Catholicism is an essentially deontological faith. That is, what is right is right, what is wrong is wrong. Theft is always theft and always wrong. There may be mitigating factors, but none of them make it right. Theft by the government, then, is wrong.

And, let’s face it, if I’m forced to “give to charity” and I doing anything morally right? Of course not. It is only when I do so out of goodness of my heart, using my freedom of will, that I have done anything truly good. The same with the so-called “living wage.” First off, the economic explorations of philosophers/economists such as Murry Rothbard, Ludwig von Mises, and Samuel Hayek have proven that the minimum wage is ultimately harmful to the poor, as it limits the number that can be employed by a given employer with limited funds. It’s nice for the people who get the jobs, but there are far more who suffer from it.

I, of course, am willing and able to defend my views. I just wanted to give a little sample of what I believe and why I believe it. I’d like to emphasize that I don’t disagree with the Church on moral issues. I just disagree greatly on government involvement in morality. That is, I disagree to what degree we should be FORCED to be moral. Because, ultimately, I believe this takes away from will, nearly eliminating it. Anyone familiar with St. Augustine’s “Free Choice and the Will” will understand why this is a problem. If we do not have free will, and we are simply forced to do what is good, then there can be no good or evil, there can only be what we necessarily have done. Granted, not having free will and the government forcing certain moral teachings on people is different. We still have the choice to do right or wrong, but we do so with the knowledge that punishment will come to us if we do wrong. More accurately, we know that punishment will come to us if we get caught. This sews a citizenry who don’t try to do right for the sake of right, nor even people who do right because they are scared of punishment. Rather is sews a citizenry who try not to get caught doing wrong. That is unacceptable. Anyway, I look forward to the feedback and, even moreso, to explaining my view in more detail to any skeptics.

-Matt

 

[Della]

I have to disagree with your premise that nations cannot be moral. That is certainly not the case. Peoples can and do act as corporate bodies that make moral and immoral decisions and commit moral and immoral acts. History is replete with examples of this.

All I know about governmental social programs is that most of them outlived their usefulness long ago but are kept going by politicians who want to keep people voting for them by supporting these programs. It’s the old “bread and the circus” type of governing, which I find deplorable.

I think many bishops in this country support these programs because they believe they help people. I’m afraid they are wrong about that. Most of these programs keep people in generational poverty and give them no incentive to improve their lives on their own. I’m with you there. Socialism isn’t the way to go, but neither is rampant capitalism that squashes the small business man/woman in its headlong rush to “corner the market”.

Btw, have you read G. K. Chesterton’s “Outline of Sanity”? I think you’d really enjoy it.

 

[jlw]

Generally agree. Not entirely. But I understand your premise. But a few questions…

So how should the state handle an “unformed conscience”?? The only way we know what is right is what God has stamped in our hearts?? Or do we also know what is right by the roadsigns (whether they be sacraments or legislation) that point us to NATURAL LAW??