Lay person reflect on gospel? My Priest responded that it's okay... sigh

[NewsTheMan]

Once again, I am having trouble in my Parish.

An email was circulated around by the Parish committee asking for someone to give a “reflection on the Gospel after the Gospel”. I was concerned about this, so I emailed back asking what this meant and to clarify when it would be done. The response was that it meant the person would be giving a reflection on what the reading meant for them in their life, and that it would be done straight after the Gospel. My response back was asking them to speak to our Priest in light of Redemptionis Sacramentum 64-68.

Someone from the committee forwarded me the email they sent, I will post the response from the Priest *

Thanx so much for your correspondence. Yes, there will be many and different views and feelings about such an exercise, giving a chance to young people to testify in church, especially the Catholic Church. However, do not worry, there are ways of getting around these laws and interpretations.
In fact, it is interesting because this coming Sunday is “Vocations Sunday” and the practice in many parishes is asking young Religious Sisters and Brothers to say something on their calling, to share with the people on how they were called, etc. And, according to Canon Law, these are not Clerics (priests) but are Lay, yet they are asked to talk during the time of the homily.
I would say we just go ahead with our effort to encourage young people in church, there are always ways of doing things differently and the Church will allow such attempts. Law is for building up and helping us worship God better as long as it is not against the core tenets or essentials of the Church teaching. Moreover, this “testifying” will not be every sunday.
We respect each view expressed and we appreciate their contribution and I think we should try to embrace different persons as much as we can.
Thank you again

I don’t know what to think or do now? I am a bit concerned about the “getting around these laws” part but I understand what he means… Is it a small thing anyway that I shouldn’t be concerned about?*

 

[NewsTheMan]

I’ve thought a bit more about it. I think I shouldn’t say anything more. I believe Fraternal Correction necessitates that the other person must be open to being corrected - that there will be a good chance of change. In this case, I am not sure how much good I can do.

I have all the documents [Frequently Asked Questions: Who can preach a homily?]](http://www.catholicdoors.com/faq/qu393.htm]). But quoting them won’t do much.

It troubles me though. Obedience to the Pope and the Bishops is a fundamental part of our faith is it not? Brushing it off and looking for ways out… well, it’s saying “I know better than the Mystical Body of Christ”. Is it not?

It’s difficult. Also because this particular Priest is my confessor and I don’t want him to think I am a snot nosed brat.

 

[markomalley]

Once again, I am having trouble in my Parish.

An email was circulated around by the Parish committee asking for someone to give a “reflection on the Gospel after the Gospel”. I was concerned about this, so I emailed back asking what this meant and to clarify when it would be done. The response was that it meant the person would be giving a reflection on what the reading meant for them in their life, and that it would be done straight after the Gospel. My response back was asking them to speak to our Priest in light of Redemptionis Sacramentum 64-68.

Someone from the committee forwarded me the email they sent, I will post the response from the Priest *

I don’t know what to think or do now? I am a bit concerned about the “getting around these laws” part but I understand what he means… Is it a small thing anyway that I shouldn’t be concerned about?*
I can appreciate the importance of a reflection. But never should a layperson give a homily (even if it is called a “reflection” or some other such nonsense).

In my mind, it would be far less offensive if this reflection was given completely outside of the Mass or, at a minimum, to give this reflection during the “announcement” time after communion. In that way, there would be no confusion with the faithful.

You might also want to refer to RS 161:

[161.] As was already noted above, the homily on account of its importance and its nature is reserved to the Priest or Deacon during Mass.[260] As regards other forms of preaching, if necessity demands it in particular circumstances, or if usefulness suggests it in special cases, lay members of Christ’s faithful may be allowed to preach in a church or in an oratory outside Mass in accordance with the norm of law.[261] This may be done only on account of a scarcity of sacred ministers in certain places, in order to meet the need, and it may not be transformed from an exceptional measure into an ordinary practice, nor may it be understood as an authentic form of the advancement of the laity.[262] All must remember besides that the faculty for giving such permission belongs to the local Ordinary, and this as regards individual instances; this permission is not the competence of anyone else, even if they are Priests or Deacons.

You do have recourse to your bishop in this matter if it is impossible to resolve with your pastor. The “getting around the law” bit is troubling.

 

[NewsTheMan]

I can appreciate the importance of a reflection. But never should a layperson give a homily (even if it is called a “reflection” or some other such nonsense).

In my mind, it would be far less offensive if this reflection was given completely outside of the Mass or, at a minimum, to give this reflection during the “announcement” time after communion. In that way, there would be no confusion with the faithful.

You might also want to refer to RS 161:

[161.] As was already noted above, the homily on account of its importance and its nature is reserved to the Priest or Deacon during Mass.[260] As regards other forms of preaching, if necessity demands it in particular circumstances, or if usefulness suggests it in special cases, lay members of Christ’s faithful may be allowed to preach in a church or in an oratory outside Mass in accordance with the norm of law.[261] This may be done only on account of a scarcity of sacred ministers in certain places, in order to meet the need, and it may not be transformed from an exceptional measure into an ordinary practice, nor may it be understood as an authentic form of the advancement of the laity.[262] All must remember besides that the faculty for giving such permission belongs to the local Ordinary, and this as regards individual instances; this permission is not the competence of anyone else, even if they are Priests or Deacons.

You do have recourse to your bishop in this matter if it is impossible to resolve with your pastor. The “getting around the law” bit is troubling.

Thank you for the response.

I agree, a reflection or whatever might be appropriate and even good… just not during the time when a homily by a Priest is meant to be given. Since the homily is a part of the Mass.

As for going to the Bishop. See my second posting. I am just not sure if it’s even worth it. Doubtful anything will happen. There are more pressing matters anyway with regards to abuses. Also, sad to say, but I have heard first hand from certain people in my diocese that the Bishop has brushed off many of these matters with the response that is similar to what my own Priest has written as I posted above. It’s hard to know what to do and how I should act. I don’t want to be prideful about it - after all I am not a Priest nor do I have any authority.

 

[thomas_jd]

Once again, I am having trouble in my Parish.

An email was circulated around by the Parish committee asking for someone to give a “reflection on the Gospel after the Gospel”. I was concerned about this, so I emailed back asking what this meant and to clarify when it would be done. The response was that it meant the person would be giving a reflection on what the reading meant for them in their life, and that it would be done straight after the Gospel. My response back was asking them to speak to our Priest in light of Redemptionis Sacramentum 64-68.

Someone from the committee forwarded me the email they sent, I will post the response from the Priest *

I don’t know what to think or do now? I am a bit concerned about the “getting around these laws” part but I understand what he means… Is it a small thing anyway that I shouldn’t be concerned about?*

Is the priest omitting the homily or is a reflection to be given after the homily?
If it is the latter it would be allowed as the talk would not be a homily but rather a reflection, as they termed it. R.S. addresses “testimony and instructions” leaving many possibilites of what is permissable to be addressed by the laity.Common sense must be used when discerning.There is no "getting around"the documents but rather a interpretative issue best decided by the Bishop!
More facts are needed.

 

[Brendan]

Is the priest omitting the homily or is a reflection to be given after the homily?
If it is the latter it would be allowed as the talk would not be a homily but rather a reflection, as they termed it. R.S. addresses “testimony and instructions” leaving many possibilites of what is permissable to be addressed by the laity…

if that is the case, then the reflection should be given after Communion during the time alloted for announcements and such.

 

[thomas_jd]

if that is the case, then the reflection should be given after Communion during the time alloted for announcements and such.

Incorrect! Reread R.&S, “Instruction & Testimony” are addressed not reflections.
This is a prime example of not understanding the document and twisting the meaning as is the common reoccurring theme so prevelant on this site.

 

[markomalley]

Incorrect! Reread R.&S, “Instruction & Testimony” are addressed not reflections.
This is a prime example of not understanding the document and twisting the meaning as is the common reoccurring theme so prevelant on this site.

[74.] Si necessitas oriatur, qua instructiones vel testimonium quoddam circa vitam christianam in ecclesia apud christifideles congregatos a laico praebeantur, omnino praeferendum est hoc extra Missae celebrationem fieri. Ob graves tamen causas licet huiusmodi instructiones vel testimonia praeberi postquam Sacerdos orationem post Communionem protulerit. Ne tamen hic usus consuetus fiat. Quae insuper instructiones et testimonia minime talem habeant sensum, ut cum homilia confundi possint,[156] nec licet earum causa homiliam omnino supprimere.
A reflection would most certainly fall within the parameters of “instructiones” (training) and “testimonium” (evidence, witness).

In addition, please refer to Congregation for the Clergy, On Certain Questions Regarding the Collaboration of the Non-Ordained Faithful in the Sacred Ministry of Priest (Ecclesiae de Mysterio), 1997, Article 3:
§ 2. A form of instruction designed to promote a greater understanding of the liturgy, including personal testimonies, or the celebration of eucharistic liturgies** on special occasions** (e.g. day of the Seminary, day of the sick etc.) is lawful, of in harmony with liturgical norms, should such be considered objectively opportune as a means of explicating the regular homily preached by the celebrant priest. Nonetheless, these testimonies or explanations may not be such so as to assume a character which could be confused with the homily.
Again, placing these reflections (instructions, testimony) in the place of the homily would not be appropriate because of confusion to the faithful…but announcement time would be far less problematic.

 

[TrueLight]

Mark,

You know where everything is. I want to be like you when I grow up.

[74.] Si necessitas oriatur, qua instructiones vel testimonium quoddam circa vitam christianam in ecclesia apud christifideles congregatos a laico praebeantur, omnino praeferendum est hoc extra Missae celebrationem fieri. Ob graves tamen causas licet huiusmodi instructiones vel testimonia praeberi postquam Sacerdos orationem post Communionem protulerit. Ne tamen hic usus consuetus fiat. Quae insuper instructiones et testimonia minime talem habeant sensum, ut cum homilia confundi possint,[156] nec licet earum causa homiliam omnino supprimere.
A reflection would most certainly fall within the parameters of “instructiones” (training) and “testimonium” (evidence, witness).

In addition, please refer to Congregation for the Clergy, On Certain Questions Regarding the Collaboration of the Non-Ordained Faithful in the Sacred Ministry of Priest (Ecclesiae de Mysterio), 1997, Article 3:
§ 2. A form of instruction designed to promote a greater understanding of the liturgy, including personal testimonies, or the celebration of eucharistic liturgies** on special occasions** (e.g. day of the Seminary, day of the sick etc.) is lawful, of in harmony with liturgical norms, should such be considered objectively opportune as a means of explicating the regular homily preached by the celebrant priest. Nonetheless, these testimonies or explanations may not be such so as to assume a character which could be confused with the homily.
Again, placing these reflections (instructions, testimony) in the place of the homily would not be appropriate because of confusion to the faithful…but announcement time would be far less problematic.

 

[Monica4316]

I personally feel really uncomfortable with “trying out new things” in the liturgy… and we can see most of these go against the rubrics anyway.

I am not sure what you could do in this situation… I guess just pray…
if you get tempted to any uncharitable thoughts towards your priest, don’t allow them… even if your view is more in accordance with the Church laws.

If you want, maybe speak to him more about this?

offer it up? lol…

 

[EasterJoy]

Forward copies of this e-mail correspondence to your bishop with a very short cover letter explaining that you actually worry more when your parish seems to take the attitude that “there are ways of getting around these laws and interpretations”. If your bishop is not particularly concerned about this kind of thing, then you might also cc: the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Sacraments in Rome. It is their office to clarify these things.

Only an ordained member of the clergy ought to be giving the homily. After the homily, there is no need for an additional “reflection on the Gospel”. If someone else is allowed to speak after the homily at all (the time after Holy Communion is also available, but some pastors object that a sizable number of those originally present are gone by then), the content should clearly not be the content of a homily, but something else.

I have been in parishes where the pastor asked “young Religious Sisters and Brothers to say something on their calling, to share with the people on how they were called, etc” to mark occasions such as Vocations Awareness Week. These few words came after a short homily by the priest, and the remarks had no content in them that could be confused with a homily.

You might also tell your parish that there are a great many hours outside the Holy Mass in which members of the laity might preach the Gospel to the world. Only the Mass is reserved so that some of the preaching each week might always come from the clergy. Perhaps the problem is not that there is too little opportunity for the laity to preach at Mass, but too many neglected opportunities to preach outside of it.

 

[thomas_jd]

[74.] Si necessitas oriatur, qua instructiones vel testimonium quoddam circa vitam christianam in ecclesia apud christifideles congregatos a laico praebeantur, omnino praeferendum est hoc extra Missae celebrationem fieri. Ob graves tamen causas licet huiusmodi instructiones vel testimonia praeberi postquam Sacerdos orationem post Communionem protulerit. Ne tamen hic usus consuetus fiat. Quae insuper instructiones et testimonia minime talem habeant sensum, ut cum homilia confundi possint,[156] nec licet earum causa homiliam omnino supprimere.
A reflection would most certainly fall within the parameters of “instructiones” (training) and “testimonium” (evidence, witness).

In addition, please refer to Congregation for the Clergy, On Certain Questions Regarding the Collaboration of the Non-Ordained Faithful in the Sacred Ministry of Priest (Ecclesiae de Mysterio), 1997, Article 3:
§ 2. A form of instruction designed to promote a greater understanding of the liturgy, including personal testimonies, or the celebration of eucharistic liturgies** on special occasions** (e.g. day of the Seminary, day of the sick etc.) is lawful, of in harmony with liturgical norms, should such be considered objectively opportune as a means of explicating the regular homily preached by the celebrant priest. Nonetheless, these testimonies or explanations may not be such so as to assume a character which could be confused with the homily.
Again, placing these reflections (instructions, testimony) in the place of the homily would not be appropriate because of confusion to the faithful…but announcement time would be far less problematic.

Another misunderstanding of the printed word.

 

[markomalley]

Another misunderstanding of the printed word.

Oh, you know, you’re right.

I should have recognized the Magesterial authority of thomas jd.

My apologies.

:hypno:

 

[laszlo]

Three notes:

• in the early 1940’s my father was professor in the oldest University of Hungary. Several times, he and other professors were asked to write down their opinions in certain questions, and the priest read the answers in his sermon. I do not remember whether names were mentioned or not, but it was clear that the priest reads the opinions of laymen sitting in the audience
• either before and after the XXI Ecumenical council, priest used to ask questions to the audience, and the answer is part of the homily.
• since I hear homilies priests used to quote from other people even verbatim

Conclusion: if the reflections of young people substitutes the homily that is probably beyond the rules. If the priest has some control over that reflections, and concludes them, that can be a effective homily .

 

[EasterJoy]

Three notes:

• in the early 1940’s my father was professor in the oldest University of Hungary. Several times, he and other professors were asked to write down their opinions in certain questions, and the priest read the answers in his sermon. I do not remember whether names were mentioned or not, but it was clear that the priest reads the opinions of laymen sitting in the audience
• either before and after the XXI Ecumenical council, priest used to ask questions to the audience, and the answer is part of the homily.
• since I hear homilies priests used to quote from other people even verbatim

Conclusion: if the reflections of young people substitutes the homily that is probably beyond the rules. If the priest has some control over that reflections, and concludes them, that can be a effective homily .

There is no “probably”. I mean no disrespect, but there is no need to guess about what is allowed in 2011 by extrapolating from what took place in Hungary during the War.

There are specific and current guidelines for the conditions under which member of the laity may preach within the confines of a Roman Catholic church or oratory in the United States. Provided that a priest or deacon present speaks the language of the faithful, it is not the homily. This is what the USCCB has currently posted on their web site (boldface mine):

On November 14, 2001, the Latin Church members of the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops approved complementary legislation for canon 766 of the Code of Canon Law for the dioceses of the Latin Church of the United States.

The action was granted recognitio by the Congregation for Bishops in accord with article 82 of the Apostolic Constitution Pastor Bonus and issued by decree of the Congregation for Bishops signed by His Eminence Cardinal Giovanni Battista Re, Prefect, and His Excellency Most Reverend Franciscus Monterisi, Secretary, and dated November 27, 2001.

Complementary Norm: Preaching the Word of God is among the principal duties of those who have received the sacrament of orders (cc. 762-764). The lay faithful can be called to cooperate in the exercise of the Ministry of the Word (c. 759). In accord with canon 766 the National Conference of Catholic Bishops hereby decrees that the lay faithful may be permitted to exercise this ministry in churches and oratories, with due regard for the following provisions:

If necessity requires it in certain circumstances or it seems useful in particular cases, the diocesan bishop can admit lay faithful to preach, to offer spiritual conferences or give instructions in churches, oratories or other sacred places within his diocese, when he judges it to be to the spiritual advantage of the faithful.

In order to assist the diocesan bishop in making an appropriate pastoral decision (Interdicasterial Instruction, Ecclesiae de Mysterio, Article 2 §3), the following circumstances and cases are illustrative: the absence or shortage of clergy, particular language requirements, or the demonstrated expertise or experience of the lay faithful concerned.

The lay faithful who are to be admitted to preach in a church or oratory must be orthodox in faith, and well-qualified, both by the witness of their lives as Christians and by a preparation for preaching appropriate to the circumstances.

The diocesan bishop will determine the appropriate situations in accord with canon 772§1. **In providing for preaching by the lay faithful the diocesan bishop may never dispense from the norm which reserves the homily to the sacred ministers **(c. 767§1; cfr. Pontifical Commission for the Authentic Interpretation of the Code of Canon Law, 26 May 1987, in AAS 79 [1987], 1249). **Preaching by the lay faithful may not take place within the Celebration of the Eucharist at the moment reserved for the homily. **

As President of the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops, I hereby decree that the effective date of this decree for all the dioceses of the Latin Church in the United States will be January 15, 2002.

Given at the offices of the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops in Washington, DC, on December 13, 2001.

Most Reverend Wilton D. Gregory
Bishop of Belleville
President, USCCB
Reverend Monsignor William P. Fay
General Secretary

usccb.org/norms/766.htm

 

[laszlo]

In order to assist the diocesan bishop in making an appropriate pastoral decision (Interdicasterial Instruction, Ecclesiae de Mysterio, Article 2 §3), the following circumstances and cases are illustrative: the absence or shortage of clergy, particular language requirements, or the demonstrated expertise or experience of the lay faithful concerned.

This is extension of the practice in Hungary during the war, makes it legal.

For the listed case I still believe that asking for the reflection of some young man, does not makes that reflection preaching, just illustration for the preaching, which will and should be interpreted and authorized by the closing words of the priest.

Do you have any document which deny illustration for the homily, and requires it as dry as possible?

 

[Sheadad]

This is extension of the practice in Hungary during the war, makes it legal.

For the listed case I still believe that asking for the reflection of some young man, does not makes that reflection preaching, just illustration for the preaching, which will and should be interpreted and authorized by the closing words of the priest.

Do you have any document which deny illustration for the homily, and requires it as dry as possible?

The document has already been posted in the thread above. You’re comment about making it as dry as possible shows that you’re reflecting on the way the message is delivered and how entertaining it is, rather than what the message means. Illustration of the Gospel is exactly the same as preaching, reflection of God’s word has been and always will be a sacred and most holy component of the fabric of the liturgy. That’s why it remains reserved for those ordained.

I personally think it’s ashame when a parish allows the laity to get involved at all during the homily. The beauty of the word of God and reflection on it, coexists in importance to the celebration of the Eucharist. These two fundamental ingredients are critical to the sanctity of the mass and the protection of their form is vital.

That being said, there are those who would love to have the opportunity to share what they may feel compelled to expand upon or demonstrate in a different way. These should be reserved for after mass (weekday evenings), where the faithful may sign up for an authorized program of sorts. These programs, studies via DVD, and bible study discussion groups are the appropriate forum for the laity in my opinion.

 

[Mrs_Sally]

My parish is having an event this Sunday evening where a seminarian and a religious sister are going to talk about their vocations. The entire church has been invited, particularly the high school youth. It will be announced in all the Masses. That seems to be the best way to have somone other than the parish priest speak about their vocations.

If the priest in OP’s parish is looking to encourage participation by youth in the Mass, there are many other roles other than having them give a “homily”. The Mass is not a public speaking course.