Laying on hands / baptism question

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aragonsr

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[Acts 8:14-17]
“Now when the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had accepted the word of God, they sent them Peter and John, who went down the prayed for them, that they might receive the holy Spirit, for it had not yet fallen upon any of them; they had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. Then they laid hands on them and they received the holy Spirit. When Simon saw that the Spirit was conferred by the laying on of the apostles’ hands, he offered them money …]”

I thought baptism was when the holy Spirit dwelled inside of us.
What am I missing that I don’t understand?

Thanks
-Todd
 
As TheDoctor stated,
The passage is talking about Confirmation.
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The analogy I’ve made before is, at Baptism you receive lots of “presents” and get to open many (but not all) of them.

At Confirmation, you get to open the other presents that you already received too.

When an adult is Baptized, they get to open all the presents at once–that is, they get Baptized, then get Confirmed at the same Liturgy.

Q: Can babies be baptized AND Confirmed at the same liturgy too?
A: Yes under certain circumstances.

Such is the case for infants in danger of death (see CCC 1314 below) or even healthy infants in some of the Eastern Rites too.

Confirmation is the “completion” of Baptism.

CCC 1304 Like Baptism which it completes, Confirmation is given only once, for it too imprints on the soul an indelible spiritual mark, the “character,” which is the sign that Jesus Christ has marked a Christian with the seal of his Spirit by clothing him with power from on high so that he may be his witness.[119]

CCC 1305 This “character” perfects the common priesthood of the faithful, received in Baptism, and “the confirmed person receives the power to profess faith in Christ publicly and as it were officially (quasi ex officio).”[120]

Excerpt from CCC 1288 “From that time (the time of Pentecost) on the apostles, in fulfillment of Christ’s will, imparted to the newly baptized by the laying on of hands the gift of the Spirit that completes the grace of Baptism. . . . . . . The imposition of hands is rightly recognized by the Catholic tradition as the origin of the sacrament of Confirmation, which in a certain way perpetuates the grace of Pentecost in the Church.”[98]

CCC 1314 If a Christian is in danger of death,
any priest should give him Confirmation.[132]
Indeed the Church desires that none of her children, even the youngest,
should depart this world without having been perfected by the Holy Spirit
with the gift of Christ’s fullness.

Incidentally, The Blessed Virgin Mary received the Holy Spirit at the time of the Incarnation. Yet Mary was in the Upper Room at Pentecost too and again received the Holy Spirit.

The Apostles who were in the Upper Room and received the Holy Spirit, also earlier “received the Holy Spirit” when Jesus breathed upon them the gifts to forgive sins and thus hear Confessions (in John 20:22).
 
You receive the Holy Spirit twice? At what point does it leave so you have to receive it again? That’s obviously man made doctrine.
 
cguerber said:
You receive the Holy Spirit twice? At what point does it leave so you have to receive it again? That’s obviously man made doctrine.
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The way I understand it, as one’s prayer journey continues and flourishes, the Holy Spirit gives more of Himself to that person.

A person who is fully sanctified is one who has reached his/her fullest capacity for grace that the Lord created them for. (a saint).
 
cguerber said:
You receive the Holy Spirit twice? At what point does it leave so you have to receive it again? That’s obviously man made doctrine.
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Don’t be absurd. We can receive grace in more than one way and at more than one time.

We receive the indwelling of the Holy Spirit at baptism when we are cleansed of original sin and born again.

Confirmation strengthens the grace of baptism by giving us an outpouring of the gifts of the Holy Spirit.
 
cguerber said:
You receive the Holy Spirit twice? At what point does it leave so you have to receive it again? That’s obviously man made doctrine.
Click to expand...
Let’s see:

In John 20:22, after Jesus’ resurrection but before His ascension, he says to the Apostles:
"And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the holy Spirit. Whose sins you forgive are forgiven them, and whose sins you retain are retained.”
Later after Jesus ascends we read in Acts 2:1-4:
%between% When the time for Pentecost was fulfilled, they were all in one place together And suddenly there came from the sky a noise like a strong driving wind,%between% and it filled the entire house in which they were. Then there appeared to them tongues as of fire, which parted and came to rest on each one of them. %between%And they were all filled with the holy Spirit and began to speak in different tongues, as the Spirit enabled them to proclaim.
So I guess by your logic, the Holy Spirit left the Apostles before Pentecost and they received it again later? Or did they receive the Holy Spirit and then a strengthening of the Spirit in them?:hmmm: Seems kinda scriptural to me…

If I may suggest, rather than take a silly potshot (“that obviously man made doctrine”) may I invite you to learn what the Church teaches and why?
 
TheDoctor said:
Let’s see:

In John 20:22, after Jesus’ resurrection but before His ascension, he says to the Apostles:
"And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the holy Spirit. Whose sins you forgive are forgiven them, and whose sins you retain are retained.”
Later after Jesus ascends we read in Acts 2:1-4:
%between% When the time for Pentecost was fulfilled, they were all in one place together And suddenly there came from the sky a noise like a strong driving wind,%between% and it filled the entire house in which they were. Then there appeared to them tongues as of fire, which parted and came to rest on each one of them. %between%And they were all filled with the holy Spirit and began to speak in different tongues, as the Spirit enabled them to proclaim.
So I guess by your logic, the Holy Spirit left the Apostles before Pentecost and they received it again later? Or did they receive the Holy Spirit and then a strengthening of the Spirit in them?:hmmm: Seems kinda scriptural to me…

If I may suggest, rather than take a silly potshot (“that obviously man made doctrine”) may I invite you to learn what the Church teaches and why?
Click to expand...
I agree with you about the ‘strengthening’ aspect. I was referencing what the poster thedoctor said above about getting the Holy Spirit twice when it was stated: At baptism we receive the Holy Spirit and are washed clean of original sin. At confirmation, we receive the Holy Spirit again and are sealed with the Spirit, completing the process of Christian initiation. The passage is talking about Confirmation.

We can only receive the Holy Spirit once. I think you agree with that. My ‘pot shot’ was in reference to receiving the Holy Spirit twice.
 
Thank you for the answers. The confusion is this bit.
aragonsr said:
Peter and John, who went down the prayed for them, that they might receive the holy Spirit, for it had not yet fallen upon any of them; they had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
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I don’t think I completely understand yet…
The reason I was confused was because it said that they were baptized, but the holy Spirit had not yet fallen upon any of them. But as all of you said, during baptism, this isn’t the case. Baptism does indeed impart the holy Spirit upon them. So how can they be baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus, yet the holy Spirit has not fallen on them?
 
cguerber said:
You receive the Holy Spirit twice? At what point does it leave so you have to receive it again? That’s obviously man made doctrine.
Click to expand...
We receive the Holy Spirit in a special way at confirmation. There is a strengthening of the gifts of the Holy Spirit through confirmation. Confirmation completes baptism. Baptism and confirmation form a pair. The Holy Spirit dwells in us more fully after confirmation.

Confirmation is our personal participation in Pentecost.

We drive the Holy Spirit from us whenever we commit a mortal sin. We receive the Holy Spirit every time we confess that sin in the confessional. So it should not surprise anyone that we receive the Holy Spirit many times during out lives.

-Tim-
 
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