LDS: Article of Faith #2, and "the mark of Cain"

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LDS Article of Faith #2 reads,


  1. *]We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam’s transgression.
    How can this be reconciled with the Mormon teaching that dark-skinned peoples have their dark skins because of a curse put on their ancestors? Why would the Mormon god not provide everyone with a sort of sinning “level playing field” (original sin) in favor of punishing some people in this life for the transgressions of their ancestors, while rewarding others?

    To me, this is more proof that the LDS church is far more pagan than anything else. I also think that this attitude, had the LDS church spread in power and influence beyond the group that had to remove itself from the rest of American society, would have eventually resulted in a kind of caste system based on skin color. I thank God that it didn’t work out that way, and that the LDS leaders were, in the end, open to the changes that occurred in the mainstream American society around them.
 
This was the first inconsistency I discovered about Mormonism. - The human race can not be held accountable for the sin of Adam (1 Cor 15:21-22) but some of the human race can be held accountable for the sin of Cain (Book of Moses 7:22).
 
ibkc said:
LDS Article of Faith #2 reads,

  1. *]We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam’s transgression.
    How can this be reconciled with the Mormon teaching that dark-skinned peoples have their dark skins because of a curse put on their ancestors? Why would the Mormon god not provide everyone with a sort of sinning “level playing field” (original sin) in favor of punishing some people in this life for the transgressions of their ancestors, while rewarding others?

    To me, this is more proof that the LDS church is far more pagan than anything else. I also think that this attitude, had the LDS church spread in power and influence beyond the group that had to remove itself from the rest of American society, would have eventually resulted in a kind of caste system based on skin color. I thank God that it didn’t work out that way, and that the LDS leaders were, in the end, open to the changes that occurred in the mainstream American society around them.
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  1. Hi ibkc,

    The Book of Mormon said that this kind of “mark” was put on the descendants of Lehi’s sons, Laman and Lemuel. This is what Lehi said to their children.
    "Wherefore, after my father had made an end of speaking concerning the prophecies of Joseph, he called the children of Laman, his sons, and his daughters, and said unto them: Behold, my sons, and my daughters, who are the sons and the daughters of my first-born, I would that ye should give ear unto my words. For the Lord God hath said that: Inasmuch as ye shall keep my commandments ye shall prosper in the land; and inasmuch as ye will not keep my commandments ye shall be cut off from my presence. But behold, my sons and my daughters, I cannot go down to my grave save I should leave a blessing upon you; for behold, I know that if ye are brought up in the way ye should go ye will not depart from it.

    *** Wherefore, if ye are cursed, behold, I leave my blessing upon you, that the cursing may be taken from you and be answered upon the heads of your parents. ***Wherefore, because of my blessing the Lord God will not suffer that ye shall perish; wherefore, he will be merciful unto you and unto your seed forever." (2 Nephi 4:3-7)
    So just because someone is “cursed” because of the actions of their parents, that does not mean they will be judged unfairly in the end.

    You might also read the Bible where it says 1) the Israelites aside from the Levites were banned from the priesthood because of the actions of their forefathers, and 2) the Moabites and other local groups were banned from joining the congregation of God for something like 10 generations after they fought against the Israelites.

    We don’t know all the reasons God would do something like that, but we figure he will work it all out fairly in the end.
 
BDawg said:
Hi ibkc,

The Book of Mormon said that this kind of “mark” was put on the descendants of Lehi’s sons, Laman and Lemuel. This is what Lehi said to their children.
"Wherefore, after my father had made an end of speaking concerning the prophecies of Joseph, he called the children of Laman, his sons, and his daughters, and said unto them: Behold, my sons, and my daughters, who are the sons and the daughters of my first-born, I would that ye should give ear unto my words. For the Lord God hath said that: Inasmuch as ye shall keep my commandments ye shall prosper in the land; and inasmuch as ye will not keep my commandments ye shall be cut off from my presence. But behold, my sons and my daughters, I cannot go down to my grave save I should leave a blessing upon you; for behold, I know that if ye are brought up in the way ye should go ye will not depart from it.

*** Wherefore, if ye are cursed, behold, I leave my blessing upon you, that the cursing may be taken from you and be answered upon the heads of your parents. ***Wherefore, because of my blessing the Lord God will not suffer that ye shall perish; wherefore, he will be merciful unto you and unto your seed forever." (2 Nephi 4:3-7)
So just because someone is “cursed” because of the actions of their parents, that does not mean they will be judged unfairly in the end.

You might also read the Bible where it says 1) the Israelites aside from the Levites were banned from the priesthood because of the actions of their forefathers, and 2) the Moabites and other local groups were banned from joining the congregation of God for something like 10 generations after they fought against the Israelites.

We don’t know all the reasons God would do something like that, but we figure he will work it all out fairly in the end.
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This may be beyond asking, but if the curse itself was removed as far as the bad internal part, why does it matter about the external? Further, if the curse was removed, why the exclusion from the priesthood?
 
BDawg, thanks, but that doesn’t answer my question. Rather it simply points out more inconsistencies in the Mormon view. Even if dark-skinned people have the chance to right the wrongs of their ancestors (and become white and delightsome in the process) it does not change the fact that they were cursed to begin with, in opposition to the claim that your god does not punish people for the misdeeds of their ancestors.

The OT stuff you quoted is perfectly compatible with Judeo-Christian teaching because we do not make the same claims that the LDS does about the nature of the Fall.
We don’t know all the reasons God would do something like that, but we figure he will work it all out fairly in the end.
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Science tells us why populations of people have different skin colors depending on where they have historically lived. The reason has nothing to do with pleasing or displeasing God.
 
ibkc said:
BDawg, thanks, but that doesn’t answer my question. Rather it simply points out more inconsistencies in the Mormon view. Even if dark-skinned people have the chance to right the wrongs of their ancestors (and become white and delightsome in the process) it does not change the fact that they were cursed to begin with, in opposition to the claim that your god does not punish people for the misdeeds of their ancestors.

The OT stuff you quoted is perfectly compatible with Judeo-Christian teaching because we do not make the same claims that the LDS does about the nature of the Fall.

Science tells us why populations of people have different skin colors depending on where they have historically lived. The reason has nothing to do with pleasing or displeasing God.
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Hi ibkc,

You missed my point. Article of Faith #2 says that men will be JUDGED according to their own sins. The passage I cited says that if the descendants of Laman and Lemuel were “cursed,” they would not be judged for the sins of their parents, but rather it would be “answered upon the heads” of their parents.

The fact is that people ARE “cursed” because of the decisions of their parents. Why do people follow particular religions? Because their parents did, in many cases. If parents do many evil things, it is more likely that their kids will follow suit. And so on.

The Book of Mormon explains that even though this is the case, people will not end up being ***JUDGED ***for what was merely passed on from parent to child.

The moral: Life isn’t fair. God is.
 
the way that this has been reconciled by LDS leaders is very simple. we all lived in the “pre-existence” before coming to earth and “fought” on the winning side in the war in heaven. some of us did a better job than others and thus the time, place and circumstances of our birth is a direct result of our own actions in the pre-existence. so in that sense we ALL are starting out in mortal life in a situation that we are responsible for.

i find this very similar to the jewish people of christ’s time who asked “who sinned this manor his parents that he was born blind?”
 
So, then the Mormon Article of Faith #2 can really be ignored completely. According to the Mormons, God does punish people for the actions of their ancestors. It’s the specific doctrine of original sin that they reject, even though they have their own comparable doctrines.
 
ibkc said:
So, then the Mormon Article of Faith #2 can really be ignored completely. According to the Mormons, God does punish people for the actions of their ancestors. It’s the specific doctrine of original sin that they reject, even though they have their own comparable doctrines.
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Did you even read what I wrote above?
 
majick275 said:
the way that this has been reconciled by LDS leaders is very simple. we all lived in the “pre-existence” before coming to earth and “fought” on the winning side in the war in heaven. some of us did a better job than others and thus the time, place and circumstances of our birth is a direct result of our own actions in the pre-existence. so in that sense we ALL are starting out in mortal life in a situation that we are responsible for.
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yah, according to mormans any non-white person SINNED in the pre-existence, so if your life is **** because of your skin color, well, that’s because you suck and God is letting you know how bad you suck, exactly.

Where-as, those mormons born and raised in slc with white and delightsome skin are the creme de creme…God has nothing but Good Things in store for these folks…everyone else can get…a word I can’t type on this forum.
 
BDawg said:
Did you even read what I wrote above?
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I think he did and I think he read the 2nd article of faith that says “WE BELIEVE men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam’s transgression.”

Now you can say we interpret that to mean “judged” but that’s not what the 2nd article says.
 
Yes I read what you guys wrote, but I think the distinction BDawg is making is beside the point. In Christian theology we are still judged according to our individual actions, even though original sin exists. We have to live with it while we are here and we all have a chance to overcome it. How is that different from the curse placed on dark-skinned peoples in Mormon theology? I just do not see that it is.
 
I received a question about this point of doctrine and found your posts, which are very interesting & thought-provoking. If I understand IBKC’s original post, s/he is asking how the Mormon faith can believe men will be punished for their own sins and not for Adam’s transgression while also acknowledging that God placed a curse upon Cain and also upon Lehi’s descendants, presuming this curse to be dark skin. As a member of a multi-racial family and a Mormon who partnered with the St. Louis Archdiocese to prepare a speech supporting Pro-Life, I look toward three additional elements of information for my personal revelation:
  1. The Third Article of Faith: We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.
    Thus, as Christians, we believe Christ’s atonement provides the way for all to be saved.
  2. The Ninth Article of Faith: We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God.
    As God is the one who placed the curse, He is the only one who fully knows why, what the purpose was, and if/when He shall choose to lift it. It is our choice and act of faith to believe in His omnipotence and that He directs His church through a living prophet (He is the one with the big picture, the eternal perspective, and knows best; things that our mortal experience/perspective cannot provide an understanding of yet).
  3. As a woman in modern society, I am not enamored with the fact that leaders and patriarchs in the Bible had harems and concubines, yet that was acceptable before God for their day. God made the change with regard to people of color holding the priesthood in the Mormon church when He chose it was time to do so, and thus directed His prophet. And, No, plural marriage is not practiced, accepted, supported nor condoned in the current day Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, despite what shows MTV/others dredge up. Yes, I do have ancestors who after surviving the trek out west did find themselves spouse-less but with families/children to provide for, and out of necessity chose to participate in plural marriage. And when the purpose for this had run its course, (and, yes, with the encouragement of the U.S. government) the practice was forbidden by the Mormon Church’s Prophet. The point being that there are many practices throughout history that God has allowed or disallowed that we may not prefer to see in our society today; however, we are not omnipotent, we must act by faith. To believe is a personal choice.
Living in the midwest, I have many Catholic friends (best friends in fact), as well as Methodist, Lutheran, Baptist, Jehovah’s Witness, Presbyterian, Episcopalian and non-denominational Christians… And we focus on our commonalities, not our differences, as we come together to serve and bless the communities in which we live. And that is my prayer for all Christians – believers in Jesus Christ as our Lord & Savior – throughout the world, that we come together to spread His Gospel of love and help make the world a better place. In His sacred name, Amen.
 
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